Alaska Air Hiring
04-26-2025 | 06:42 AM
#8151
On Reserve
Joined: Dec 2022
Posts: 13
Likes: 0
Historical ALPA and arbitration precedent:
There WILL be CA WB fences.
There *probably* won't be FO WB fences.
There will not be NB fences.
There will not be base fences.
Fences will apply to planes on property, and also all firm orders which existed on one of two dates, we don't know which yet:
1. Merger close date (last Sep) OR
2. SLI effective date.
There's no fundamental law of nature which says that any of that *has* to go down that way, but that's the precedent and arbitrators who deviate from established precedent open themselves up to appeal/lawsuits, which isn't great for their reputation, They tend to play it safe.
If I wanted to do a thought experiment, guess you could imagine a scenario where someone could make a case that the islands are unique domicile situation, and *everything* based on the islands should be fenced, but the corollary of that the mainland gets fenced too, and anything that moves between (either direction) gets unfenced and is fair game. But that's pretty far out there.
Caveat: This all assumes arbitration. In *theory* the two MECs could agree to anything under the sun, before it gets to that. In reality they'd probably get lynched by their own people so they can be expected to dig in hard in their respective positions and let it go to arbitration.
There WILL be CA WB fences.
There *probably* won't be FO WB fences.
There will not be NB fences.
There will not be base fences.
Fences will apply to planes on property, and also all firm orders which existed on one of two dates, we don't know which yet:
1. Merger close date (last Sep) OR
2. SLI effective date.
There's no fundamental law of nature which says that any of that *has* to go down that way, but that's the precedent and arbitrators who deviate from established precedent open themselves up to appeal/lawsuits, which isn't great for their reputation, They tend to play it safe.
If I wanted to do a thought experiment, guess you could imagine a scenario where someone could make a case that the islands are unique domicile situation, and *everything* based on the islands should be fenced, but the corollary of that the mainland gets fenced too, and anything that moves between (either direction) gets unfenced and is fair game. But that's pretty far out there.
Caveat: This all assumes arbitration. In *theory* the two MECs could agree to anything under the sun, before it gets to that. In reality they'd probably get lynched by their own people so they can be expected to dig in hard in their respective positions and let it go to arbitration.
04-26-2025 | 07:36 AM
#8154
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Nov 2020
Posts: 2,232
Likes: 78
Caveat: This all assumes arbitration. In *theory* the two MECs could agree to anything under the sun, before it gets to that. In reality they'd probably get lynched by their own people so they can be expected to dig in hard in their respective positions and let it go to arbitration.
It forces each side to be as reasonable as possible and address their own side's pilots concerns vice shooting for the moon and setting up unrealistic expectations. It promotes more harmony in the process which can make the end result more palatable.
04-26-2025 | 07:54 AM
#8155
Prime Minister/Moderator
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 44,847
Likes: 653
From: Engines Turn or People Swim
It sounds like SAN base is very much in the cards. Very much up in the air as to when exactly, my personal suspicion is that it will be after SLI... they don't want movement and training churn only to have to do it all over again after SLI. History bears that out, they really needed a SEA bus base the way they were using them, but they didn't pull the trigger . Instead bus people got lots of long SEA layovers, which often involved reflows to cover for the reserves they didn't have in base.
04-26-2025 | 08:56 AM
#8156
On Reserve
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 141
Likes: 7
This is exactly why this (and any SLI merger) should be done baseball style(where each side presents it's best final offer and the mediator picks which ever proposal in entirety that he/she deems as the most "fair", IE no splitting the baby).
It forces each side to be as reasonable as possible and address their own side's pilots concerns vice shooting for the moon and setting up unrealistic expectations. It promotes more harmony in the process which can make the end result more palatable.
It forces each side to be as reasonable as possible and address their own side's pilots concerns vice shooting for the moon and setting up unrealistic expectations. It promotes more harmony in the process which can make the end result more palatable.
We need a JCBA that benefits all brothers and sisters in the new group and let the chips fall were they may in an SLI.
04-26-2025 | 09:30 AM
#8157
Line Holder
Joined: Mar 2022
Posts: 1,886
Likes: 183
And that doesn't show any routes gained since the merger. What a really funny thing to get excited about, but then again its you, so no shocker there. Nobody loves when things look seemingly bad more than you lol. Sucks to lose flying and it sucks to be down 4.6% but we are also slightly recovered from COVID.
The reason I mentioned that is because you asked me to:
This is worse than an FO asked me how I felt about the new reserve system, got super butthurt about my opinion of the new reserve system and cried to you about it.
He asked me. If he hadn’t I would’ve carried on about fun stuff to do outdoors or how terrible the drivers in Seattle are etc.
If you don’t want to know what’s going on at your place of employment that’s fine. You can wear a kool aid colored lanyard to match the gallons of sweet nectar you’re apparently gulping down. But don’t get mad when you ask me a question and I point out factual information.
Last edited by GoodJet; 04-26-2025 at 09:47 AM.
04-26-2025 | 09:33 AM
#8158
Line Holder
Joined: Mar 2022
Posts: 1,886
Likes: 183
Almost certainly CA fences.
Most likely no FO fences. So that might be a good plan C for Goodjet, one leg, 12 hour days in the right seat.
I'm *assuming* that most HAL SEA commuters are very senior, ie they were there when SEA was a HAL base years ago. So not many FO's on that side? HAL Peeps?
Most likely no FO fences. So that might be a good plan C for Goodjet, one leg, 12 hour days in the right seat.
I'm *assuming* that most HAL SEA commuters are very senior, ie they were there when SEA was a HAL base years ago. So not many FO's on that side? HAL Peeps?
04-26-2025 | 11:41 AM
#8160
Line Holder
Joined: Jan 2023
Posts: 295
Likes: 44
Historical ALPA and arbitration precedent:
There WILL be CA WB fences.
There *probably* won't be FO WB fences.
There will not be NB fences.
There will not be base fences.
Fences will apply to planes on property, and also all firm orders which existed on one of two dates, we don't know which yet:
1. Merger close date (last Sep) OR
2. SLI effective date.
There's no fundamental law of nature which says that any of that *has* to go down that way, but that's the precedent and arbitrators who deviate from established precedent open themselves up to appeal/lawsuits, which isn't great for their reputation, They tend to play it safe.
If I wanted to do a thought experiment, guess you could imagine a scenario where someone could make a case that the islands are unique domicile situation, and *everything* based on the islands should be fenced, but the corollary of that the mainland gets fenced too, and anything that moves between (either direction) gets unfenced and is fair game. But that's pretty far out there.
Caveat: This all assumes arbitration. In *theory* the two MECs could agree to anything under the sun, before it gets to that. In reality they'd probably get lynched by their own people so they can be expected to dig in hard in their respective positions and let it go to arbitration.
There WILL be CA WB fences.
There *probably* won't be FO WB fences.
There will not be NB fences.
There will not be base fences.
Fences will apply to planes on property, and also all firm orders which existed on one of two dates, we don't know which yet:
1. Merger close date (last Sep) OR
2. SLI effective date.
There's no fundamental law of nature which says that any of that *has* to go down that way, but that's the precedent and arbitrators who deviate from established precedent open themselves up to appeal/lawsuits, which isn't great for their reputation, They tend to play it safe.
If I wanted to do a thought experiment, guess you could imagine a scenario where someone could make a case that the islands are unique domicile situation, and *everything* based on the islands should be fenced, but the corollary of that the mainland gets fenced too, and anything that moves between (either direction) gets unfenced and is fair game. But that's pretty far out there.
Caveat: This all assumes arbitration. In *theory* the two MECs could agree to anything under the sun, before it gets to that. In reality they'd probably get lynched by their own people so they can be expected to dig in hard in their respective positions and let it go to arbitration.
There will be widebody fences on both CA and FO seats. The SEA 787 FO seat will likely not be filled completely by pre-merger HAL pilots creating opportunities for Alaska pilots to bid into the FO seat even while the fence is up.
There won’t be narrowbody or base fences.
Regardless of when the fences start or how long they are, they will apply to all of the widebodies that HAL brings to the merger. Which includes the twelve 787’s and eight additional options, many (all?) of which will be based in SEA.
FYI, we currently have 103 pilots on the 787 based in HNL.
The good news is that HAL pilots aren’t coming for your 737 seats, so Goodjet has nothing to worry about.
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