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Originally Posted by BrewCity
(Post 2569942)
Facts from the LiveATC archive sound clip -
Sioux Falls Tower told Allegiant 456 the wind was 130/16G21, RVR1800, Braking action had been reported good by a CRJ 20 minutes prior. After landing, tower tells the crew to allegiant to report exiting the runway, the crew responds, and then adds "braking action pretty much nil." Moments later, the Allegiant crew reported that they had gone straight off the departure end of the runway. http://archive-server.liveatc.net/kf...2018-1630Z.mp3 Landing clearance / RVR report is around the 7:00 mark After touchdown comments around the 9:00 mark |
The last ship I worked on before heading shoreside was a 300’ long high speed catamaran made out of aluminum. We routinely ran at 30-35 knots in cruise, which is really fast for a ship that size.
I remember being on the bridge doing some paperwork one afternoon off the coast of West Africa. There were whales everywhere. The chief mate had the watch, but the captain, chief engineer, and 2nd mate were all up there too. Every couple of minutes the chief mate would yell “hand steering, hard right/left” to dodge another whale. After about 10 minutes of this I looked up from my paperwork and said “Man, can’t wait for it to get dark so they all go away!” This was met with silence and angry stare from everyone else up there, because I had talked about the thing we weren’t supposed to mention. Whales? Debris? Submerged containers? Wooden, unlit fishing vessels that don’t show up on radar? In the day, we would maneuver around them. At night? If it didn’t have a radar reflector or lights, straight on ‘til morning. The watchatanders on that ship all talked about how we were relieved to turn over the watch each night and let somebody else wear the target for four hours. I feel the same way now every time I land in the snow at a smaller airport reporting 5-5-5 RCC. The crew on this flight look to have done the best they could in the situation. The aircraft will fly again, everyone walked off, and they handled it as professionals when things went bad. Provided that it doesn’t turn out that they landed halfway down the runway 20 knots over ref, I’d say they did a good job. Can’t really ask for more. |
For all the Monday morning quarterbacks.....
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Some really ignorant people on here.
There’s a saying in South Dakota: If you don’t like the weather, wait a few minutes, it’ll change. The world’s fastest temperature change happened in South Dakota. Some of aviation’s strangest and most unpredictable weather-related events happened in South Dakota: The NWA DC-9 flying through a tornado; the Skywest aircraft encountering very severe icing on final to RAP. CB tops regularly reach FL600. One would be hard pressed to find more powerful and violent thunderstorms anywhere on the planet. It has been host to some of the strongest tornadoes ever recorded...google Spencer, South Dakota and check out the images. Snowstorms have shut down the state for weeks and ice storms have left farm homes without power for nearly a month. My point is that the weather in that state is strange, highly unpredictable and oftentimes violent. Those passing judgement on this flight crew are exposing their own ignorance and immaturity. Grow up. |
Originally Posted by DENpilot
(Post 2569372)
RVR has been NOTAM'd inop for a while now at KFSD.
[URL="https://notams.aim.faa.gov/notamSearch/nsapp.html#/results"[/URL] Location Number Class Start Date UTC End Date UTC 1 Condition Construction FSD N/A Aerodrome 12/17/2015 1548 PERM ON AIRPORT - SEE CONSTRUCTION GRAPHIC Digital NOTAM FSD 03/238 Navaid 03/29/2018 1712 03/29/2019 1800EST NAV TACAN AZM OUT OF SERVICE 1803291712-1903291800EST Digital NOTAM FSD 7/7304 Procedure 10/04/2017 1812 05/16/2018 1812EST IAP JOE FOSS FIELD, Sioux Falls, SD. RNAV (GPS) RWY 3, AMDT 1B... LNAV/VNAV DA 1726/HAT 302 ALL CATS. 1710041812-1805161812EST Digital NOTAM FSD 03/015 Communication 03/05/2018 1605 05/01/2018 1800EST COM REMOTE TRANS/REC 267.9 CHANGED TO 284.725 1803051605-1805011800EST Digital NOTAM FSD 03/118 Aerodrome 03/12/2018 1736 05/01/2018 0400 AD AP BIRD ACT INCREASED 1803121736-1805010400 Digital NOTAM FSD 8/7664 Procedure 03/26/2018 1453 04/24/2018 1453EST IAP JOE FOSS FIELD, Sioux Falls, SD. VOR OR TACAN RWY 15, AMDT 21D... VOR/DME OR TACAN RWY 33, AMDT 12D... TACAN PORTION NA, FSD TACAN AZIMUTH OUT OF SERVICE. 1803261453-1804241453EST Digital NOTAM FSD 8/6127 Procedure 03/22/2018 1338 04/23/2018 1338EST IAP JOE FOSS FIELD, Sioux Falls, SD. RNAV (GPS) RWY 15, AMDT 1A... LNAV MDA 2020/HAT 591 ALL CATS. VIS CATS C/D 1 3/4. CIRCLING CATS A/B MDA 2020/HAA 590. VDP AT 1.7 NM TO RW15. CRANE, 1702 MSL, 2.4 N... Digital NOTAM FSD 8/6128 Procedure 03/22/2018 1338 04/23/2018 1338EST IAP JOE FOSS FIELD, Sioux Falls, SD. VOR OR TACAN RWY 15, AMDT 21D... S-15 MDA 2020/HAT 591 ALL CATS. VIS CATS C/D/E 1 3/4. CIRCLING CAT C MDA 2020/HAA 590. VIS CATS C 1 3/4. VDP AT FSD 2.01 DME; DIST... Digital NOTAM FSD 8/6130 Procedure 03/22/2018 1338 04/23/2018 1338EST IAP U.S. DOD JOE FOSS FIELD, Sioux Falls, SD. HI - TACAN RWY 15, AMDT 8B... S-15 CATS C/D/E MDA 2020/HAT 591. VIS CATS C/D/E 1 3/4. CIRCLING CAT C MDA 2020/HAA 590. VIS CATS C 1 3/4. VDP AT FSD 2.01 D... FSD 03/173 Obstruction 03/21/2018 1854 04/21/2018 1200 OBST TOWER LGT (ASR 1226459) 433733.80N0963537.30W (7.0NM ENE FSD) 1677.2FT (263.1FT AGL) OUT OF SERVICE 1803211854-1804211200 Digital NOTAM FSD 8/7848 Procedure 04/12/2018 1430 04/19/2018 0127EST IAP JOE FOSS FIELD, Sioux Falls, SD. ILS OR LOC RWY 3, AMDT 27F... MISSED APPROACH: CLIMB TO 3400 THEN CLIMBING LEFT TURN DIRECT ROKKY LOM/RADAR AND HOLD SW, LT, 029.89 INBOUND. RADAR REQUIRED FOR PRO... Digital NOTAM FSD 8/7851 Procedure 04/12/2018 1430 04/19/2018 0127EST IAP JOE FOSS FIELD, Sioux Falls, SD. ILS OR LOC RWY 21, AMDT 10B... PROCEDURE NA EXCEPT FOR AIRCRAFT EQUIPPED WITH SUITABLE RNAV SYSTEM WITH GPS, FSD VORTAC OUT OF SERVICE. 1804121430-1804190127EST Closed FSD 04/108 Aerodrome 04/12/2018 1400 04/12/2018 2200 RWY 03/21 CLSD 1804121400-1804122200 Closed FSD 04/112 Aerodrome 04/12/2018 1400 04/12/2018 2200 RWY 09/27 CLSD 1804121400-1804122200 Digital NOTAM FSD M0031/18 Military 04/11/2018 2146 04/12/2018 1700 RWY 03 BAK-14 ARRESTING SYSTEM UNSERVICEABLE Digital NOTAM FSD M0032/18 Military 04/11/2018 2147 04/12/2018 1700 RWY 21 BAK-14 ARRESTING SYSTEM UNSERVICEABLE Digital NOTAM FSD M0033/18 Military 04/11/2018 2147 04/12/2018 1700 RWY 15 BAK-14 ARRESTING SYSTEM UNSERVICEABLE Digital NOTAM FSD M0034/18 Military 04/11/2018 2148 04/12/2018 1700 RWY 33 BAK-14 ARRESTING SYSTEM UNSERVICEABLE Digital NOTAM FSD 04/111 Navaid 04/12/2018 1430 04/12/2018 1630 NAV VORTAC OUT OF SERVICE 1804121430-1804121630 FSD 04/113 Aerodrome 04/12/2018 1430 04/12/2018 1630 SVC HAZARDOUS INFLIGHT WX ADVISORY SERVICE OUTLET OUT OF SERVICE 1804121430-1804121630 |
Originally Posted by DENpilot
(Post 2568759)
Even more interesting.... the ILS to runway 21 cannot be shot without at least 1/2 mile vis....
Originally Posted by DENpilot
(Post 2569372)
RVR has been NOTAM'd inop for a while now at KFSD.
DENpilot = Fake News |
Based on the information at hand, this could have happened to any one of us. I'm really surprised to see all the negative comments about the crew's decision making on here. Of course weather changes, but there was no justifiable reason based on the information at hand to divert in this situation. Anyone who thinks otherwise I wouldn't want to fly with because their ego is getting in the way of seeing the facts.
Perhaps there were some other factors at work here, but like any incident, let's wait until we hear the full report until we start pointing fingers at anyone...especially our fellow pilots. |
Originally Posted by Lugar
(Post 2568969)
I heard that Maury Gallagher was on the airplane. This could get interesting.
Did you hear that from "Marsha"? :D:rolleyes: Maury was NOT on the plane.
Originally Posted by Lugar
(Post 2571655)
Funny, I just got off the phone with Maury’s assistant Marsha, and we scheduled another phone call for next week.
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Originally Posted by sqwkvfr
(Post 2570364)
The world’s fastest temperature change happened in South Dakota. Some of aviation’s strangest and most unpredictable weather-related events happened in South Dakota: The NWA DC-9 flying through a tornado; the Skywest aircraft encountering very severe icing on final to RAP. CB tops regularly reach FL600. One would be hard pressed to find more powerful and violent thunderstorms anywhere on the planet. It has been host to some of the strongest tornadoes ever recorded...google Spencer, South Dakota and check out the images. Snowstorms have shut down the state for weeks and ice storms have left farm homes without power for nearly a month. Grow up. AFAIK the NWA DC-9 flew near a storm that was produced a tornado, it didn’t fly through a tornado. A KLM Fokker Jet did, and all aboard died when it crashed. A CA friend from my airline was holding short of runway 21 and saw Allegiant pass over, according to him they were high and he never saw them touchdown. He was surprised they were shooting the approach. With 1800 RVR it’s not surprising he didn’t see them touchdown. I am assuming the feds will determine their touchdown point. At my regional we are taught we have to touch down on the thousand foot markers on a contaminated runway that is the minimum distance available for the conditions. Savvy pilots should plan for worse RCC and braking action than reported if there has been any significant time since the last report when snow is falling, especially moderate or heavy snow. They were in a tough spot. They took the risk and did a good job getting it stopped. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk |
Originally Posted by GravellyPointer
(Post 2582950)
AFAIK the NWA DC-9 flew near a storm that was produced a tornado, it didn’t fly through a tornado. A KLM Fokker Jet did, and all aboard died when it crashed.
A CA friend from my airline was holding short of runway 21 and saw Allegiant pass over, according to him they were high and he never saw them touchdown. He was surprised they were shooting the approach. With 1800 RVR it’s not surprising he didn’t see them touchdown. I am assuming the feds will determine their touchdown point. At my regional we are taught we have to touch down on the thousand foot markers on a contaminated runway that is the minimum distance available for the conditions. Savvy pilots should plan for worse RCC and braking action than reported if there has been any significant time since the last report when snow is falling, especially moderate or heavy snow. They were in a tough spot. They took the risk and did a good job getting it stopped. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk ...and the NWA DC9 flew immediately adjacent to the tornado, as witnessed by a county storm spotter who was near the airport and having a recorded conversation with Minnehaha County Metro Communications (their public safety dispatching agency) and stated by the FO after the go-around. |
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