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- Allegiant (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/allegiant/)

- - Update (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/allegiant/130790-update.html)

Please, look at the posters here, less than 100 posts. Don't be played by management on this forum.

There is not going to be any concessions that violate seniority period. The rest of this is all comical noise.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tom11011 (Post 3129966)

Yep. Lots of feeding the management trolls going on here.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Redmond’s hotel guy, got 15 million last quarter and they want to save 20 million a year by furloughing at least 275 pilots for over a year. Let’s think about that, how many hotels does Allegiant own? How many hotel construction sites in a swamp in the middle of nowhere Florida does Allegiant own. Yeah let’s **** on the pilot group for our F up.

The hotel is the real problem that management and the trolls are trying to turn everyone’s attention away from. Management is still continuing construction and has every intention on completing it. $300 million sunk in the swamp so far and counting. That was their colossal mistake. Not ours. They are desperate to squeeze the airline to fund it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tom11011 (Post 3129966)

How would agreeing to an ETO without a no furlough clause violate seniority? We already agreed to that ETO. Nobody is talking about accepting the STTO that violated seniority - that was a bs offer from the company. But that doesn't mean that we cannot pass an ETO that mitigates furloughs - an agreement that we already had?

Again, why are we the only airline in North America without a furlough mitigation leave program? Is it because our EXCO (with minimal union leadership experience) smarter than everybody else? Until that question is answered from our EXCO then we should all be questioning their decision making. If you all want to blindly follow a leadership group that is making questionable decisions and then refuses to tell us why, then go for it - ya'll are a bunch of sheep.

Quote:

Originally Posted by captnate702 (Post 3129765)

What are you talking about? The Union is totally unreasonable to ask for a NO FURLOUGH clause with the ETO. As long as the ETO is voluntary, then the there cannot be a no furlough clause - no other union has drawn a line in the sand like this (we have never gotten an answer to why EXCO refuses to agree to an ETO unless there is a no furlough clause). A voluntary ETO option being contingent on a no furlough clause is totally unreasonable and that is why no other airline and union have agreed to such a program. This one is on the Union. Just drop the no furlough clause and agree to a voluntary ETO. If we get enough ETO takers then the company won't be able to furlough because they wouldn't have enough pilots to fly the 80ish aircraft they are planning for 2021.

EXCO has promised multiple times that CARES 2 will be passed. Is that still a promise? It looks like the EXCO banked our membership's jobs on Congress getting a deal done - without a contingency plan. That is the definition of amateur hour. Then if there is any dissent on the fb page, we get bullied and silenced with ad hominem attacks, etc. This is such a cluster. A perfect marriage of an obstinate management group and an inexperienced egotistical EXCO and now I'm gonna be forced to move across the country because of this bs. Even worse, far too many of our pilots are going to be on the street - way more than necessary - because our EXCO won't just agree to a VOLUNTARY ETO. It is absurd to tie a no furlough clause to a voluntary leave program. I cannot reiterate that enough and until we get a straight answer for why EXCO believes that a only an ETO with a no furlough clause is in the best interest of the collective then they do not deserve our support. Why do they think they are smarter than every other pilot union in North America?

This was covered before, it was unethical to sign since the union was told the ETO would not prevent ANY furloughs and company still planned to furlough upwards of 300 even with the voluntary ETO deal. No other union in our industry was told this by their management, instead they were told that depending on how many took voluntary ETO's and early retirements, furloughs would be reduced if not eliminated.

There is a big difference between promise and highly likely, nice twist on words. In addition to the fact the CARES 2 money was never promised but only explained as expected to happen, why on earth would the government get a deal done early, wait another 2 weeks then check back in.

Quote:

Originally Posted by KC135 (Post 3130027)

Listen to the July 27th video again, from the 00:37-01:12 mark and tell me that the EXCO was not banking on a CARES 2 without any other contingency plan...

"There's really no chance that no sitting president would go into an election with one of the largest layoffs in American history and unemployment at a historical high..."

Doesn't sound like someone that was telling us what he expected to happen. Sounded like a guarantee and then tried to hedge their bets.

That is all besides the point. Company has agreed to mitigate furloughs through voluntary leaves with IBT and TWU for the disptatchers and the FAs. Every other pilots union has agreed to a furlough mitigation with their respective companies. No way am I going to continue to bury my head in the sand and just continually blame the company when there is a ton of evidence that places blame on the EXCO. Has the Union passed a proposal that would ensure that ETOs would mitigate furloughs? That is what every other pilots union has done...

The onus is not on the Company to find ways to preserve our jobs and avoid a massive disruption to half the pilot group - the onus is on the EXCO. It is there legal and ethical obligation to try and save our jobs and our qwl, I for one am not going to continue to give them a free pass while the rest of the industry is getting sh*t done to save their membership's jobs and mitigate the massive disruption of a system wide bump and flush (or even worse, being forced to a new base on the other side of the country). I still cannot believe how many sheep on these forums think the EXCO should get a free pass by continually pointing the finger at the Company like we can't think and see for ourselves. If the EXCO cannot get an agreement done to mitigate furloughs, displacements, downgrades, etc. through voluntary leaves then they should be transparent enough to show us how they fought tooth and nail with the Company to get something done. That is their moral and legal obligation and i for one am not going to standby and watch my life get turned upside down while the EXCO points the finger at the Company at every turn.

I hope that the recent proposal and the request for financial info means the EXCO is finally going to take this seriously. Seems to me that maybe they've realized that CARES 2 is now very unlikely to happen and they are trying to play catchup. Why are they just now asking for financial info to consider the company's proposals? probably because EXCO is no longer banking on CARES 2. From what EXCO told us in the July 27 video, the Company has been asking for concessions since mid-July but the EXCO just barely asked for the financial data, why now? Whatever the reason, at least they seem to be taking this seriously and are now going to fulfill organized labor's most vital obligation: job preservation.

Quote:

Originally Posted by captnate702 (Post 3130076)

Hey genius, an airline isn't an airline without pilots. If the management of this travel company wants to be in the airline business, it's in their best interest to retain their most crucial workgroup.

"an airline isn't an airline without pilots"

try telling that to hr.

Quote:

Originally Posted by trickeriche (Post 3130095)

Hey genius, as of right now the company, along with the rest of the industry, has more pilots than they have use for. Its in their best interest to cut costs. In what world is it in the company's best interest to retain 200 hundreds pilots that the operation does not need? Do you even look at the galley to see our flights being 30% full at best? Do you even look at what our airfare is lately? $29 each way to Vegas?

The company's best interest right now is to furlough pilots which is why the onus is on the EXCO to retain employment instead of abandoning approx 300 while they get kicked to the street. EXCO can point the finger at the company all they want, but the fact is that the entire industry has been brought to its knees. Every major carrier is burning millions of cash each day and there is no certainty as to when this will end. While the rest of the industry is finalizing deals to preserve jobs, we are acting like we just woke up and realized that the industry is burning.

Pilots were the most crucial workgroup for a time, but any talk of a pilot shortage is dead. Management won't have a problem hiring pilots for years. Does that suck for us? Yes. Is it the worst time ever to enter Section 6 bargaining? Yes. Are we gonna be stuck being the lowest paid AB320 pilots until 2026 at the earliest? Yes. But I would hope at this point we would stop putting our head in the sand and pretending that everything is fine and figure out a way to preserve jobs and keep our qwl.