I can confirm RJ doesn’t drink.

Hearing some interesting things through the grapevine lately and curious if anyone else has picked up on this.

Word is there may be some level of review coming out of the IBT DC side tied to the previous negotiating committee. Not sure how formal it is, but it supposedly centers around conduct during negotiations and use of flight pay loss time.

What raised eyebrows for me was hearing that a few individuals may have been pursuing outside opportunities (interviews/travel, etc.) while on union-paid status. If that’s even partially true, that’s a pretty serious lapse considering who was footing the bill.

Also hearing from multiple directions that the dynamic in the room wasn’t exactly… aligned with the pilot group’s best interests. Take that for what it’s worth, but it would explain a lot about how things unfolded.

Could all be smoke, but there’s enough consistency in what’s being said that it doesn’t feel random.

Anyone else hearing similar, or is this just rumor mill doing its thing?

I haven’t heard that but we did confirm they were working off the surveys with the majority of our interest as they did release some survey data. The comprehensive proposal they put out was fair and what most want which is just some of the basics that everyone else has already had for a long time. The current NC has been open about deviating from surveys and focusing on the “realities of the operation.”

That’s assuming the survey data was actually clean to begin with.

I’ve heard from a couple people now that the committee basically controlled the inputs they were working off of. If that’s true, it’s not hard to see how you end up with results that conveniently line up with what they wanted to push.

Also starting to hear more chatter about DC looking into some of this. Supposedly concerns didn’t just come from outside. Sounds like someone from within their own group may have raised issues about how things were handled, including time on flight pay loss.

Hopefully it’s overblown. But if there’s any truth to even part of it, that’s a bigger problem than just “strategy differences.”
I think we as a pilot group should welcome any second glance by IBT.

I dont want to hear about or have any resources committed to any “investigation “ until a contract is ratified. More delay BS. Contract……..NOW!

I’m being told it is an office within the IBT National office that specifically investigates matters of corruption.

No resources from the local or division.

This is 100% BS. The comprehensive proposal they sent us was completely different than the comprehensive proposal they sent the company. They lied to us time and time again. While I have no knowledge about any investigation, I do know that at least 3 of the last NC were interviewing elsewhere while pretending to negotiate on our behalf. I hope there is an investigation. I hope they and GU have charges brought up against them and they deal with the same crap that they put AR through, except these charges will be legitimate.

I think the current NC is trying their best to get something done quickly as the world stage is making things difficult. As oil surges, Spirit fails, and the industry cancels flights worldwide, our window of opportunity to obtain an Alaska like contract has slipped away. I think it’s time to take the best we can get today and hope the world is in a bette place when we start with the joint.

None of this is true. They sent us a summary of the main points of the proposal, nothing was inaccurate or different vs what was passed. The 3 on the NC did not even apply elsewhere until after the election results.

Short term economic events do not effect negotiations of long term labor contracts. It didn’t stop FDX from getting a TA with $441 top narrowbody rates while they have 5% profit margins.

We just raised guidance to have our highest revenue in company history and 14% margins for Q1. We have always remained profitable through every previous high oil spike including 2008 and 2022. Airlines are adding fuel surcharges and demand remains resilient.

Doesn't really matter anymore. Why bother going over the past. Company just has to run out the clock for 2-3 more mediated sessions, then you get to wait 5 more years for a JCBA. So that's 10 yrs on an amenable contract. No Retention bonus, no contract, so many pilots will be on the street that hiring will be easy. Unless you plan on suing the Toonsters.

Of course they do. Most unions are just smart enough to wait out the “short term economics” so the airline can’t get a deal on the cheap.

Just ask Alaska, delta, United and Southwest. They all inked deals right after Covid when the early outs left them all understaffed going into a revenge travel boom. Point is: every single one of them paused negotiations during Covid.

problem is those were smart unions. Ibt are idiots. We went from having 99% leverage in 2022-23to somewhere around 30% today? Maybe less? Ibt have botched this every step of the way.

What is really disgusting is that we would be lucky today to get the same rates that were given to the union back in 2024… think about that, by wasting two years with a terrible NC who are now mostly gone, we would be lucky to get the same deal.

spirit is gonna liquidate just in time for management to hire some pilots that don’t make the cut at the legacies. So attrition won’t be a problem for management.

Plus management gets the added bonus of telling Trump’s NMB that spirit failed because their pilots had legacy rates and work rules at a ULCC. That ULCC pilots cannot have legacy contracts. Is that true? Of course not but Trump’s NMB will go along without even questioning it.

to believe that short or long term economics don’t impact bargaining is the stupidest thing I’ve ever read. That’s like saying DC politics don’t impact bargaining. Real unions know the right time to make a deal.

Look at our FAs, they got a deal in less than a year and there’s now way that deal would be available to them today. But they were smart to get a quick deal that was a double or a triple instead of waiting years for the off chance that the stars align and the NMB pressures management into giving them a home run.

Ibt is not a sophisticated pilots union. Indeed, they are an inept, incompetent pilots union that has done irreversible damage to this pilot group.