Good point. The thing that mystifies me….all these folks in around the 200-600 sen. list range in FL LAS & IWA always bemoaning the lack of movement in their base after all these years….uh, hello? I think the company’s gotten off easy so far; by rights those bases should be emptying out at double triple the attrition we’ve seen up ‘till now.

This is a cushy airline gig. You don't quite make legacy pay, but you also don't work as hard as a legacy pilot.

I compare it to being a lifer at a regional. You make enough pay to make it worthwhile and have a secure job that runs on autopilot. Why mess with a good thing when you'd have to apply and interview at a legacy, then go through training, and start at the bottom (and likely commute for a while). It's going to absolutely destroy a year of your life vs settling for a decent life at Allegiant.

if you are in the top 40% and a captain in your chosen base.

The days of “not quite” making legacy pay are ending….the disparity is becoming jaw-dropping….

Enjoy training brand new ATP’s who never flew a jet and are fresh off OE.

Sit pretty and let the company race to the bottom.

I turned down Allegiant because I didn’t wanna be stuck commuting. Not much movement there it sounds like. Plus I didn’t wanna wait a decade to move to the left seat either. How hard do legacy pilots work exactly? Seems like a vague statement.

Probably the better way to phrase it is legacy pilots, at least narrowbody domestic types, spend more time sitting around. I would argue since they work for mature companies with robust infrastructure, decades of experience running a real airline, & work under a proper CBA, they work less hard than the Allegiant pilot who just to name one example don’t even have PDC…..

Don't discount the home every night aspect. I get that it's not a big deal to some, but it's huge for some guys. I'm happy to leave money on the table if I can truly be home every night. Sadly, it looks like allegiant has other problems in the mix, being sent TDY is kind of a deal like to the home every night selling point. If it weren't for the threat of TDY I probably wouldn't even be looking elsewhere. But I don't want to sign up to be home every night in another town. Pay does need to come up some, but it doesn't have to match Delta.

In order to eliminate tdy we would have to eliminate the less desirable bases.

Don’t discount the reality of it all. The day trips are not contractual and they could go away. There is absolutely no reason our pay should be a penny less than any other A320 pilot. We are all A320 pilots taking off and landing at a lot of the time more challenging airports than most with less resources. Whether you’re employed by Delta, United, Alaska or any other airline that operates an A320 at the end of the day you are an A320 pilot with almost 200 souls on board. Take the name and paint off the plane. It’s extremely simple.

Don’t make your decision based on TDY. Your base may never TDY and if they do it’s often voluntary. You’re most vulnerable to an involuntary TDY your first few months on line.
The vast majority of pilots have never seen an involuntary TDY.

Good to know. VPS and SFB are top of my list, abs info on those going TDY much?

I understand they are not contractual. But it is the reality. I'm willing to accept less pay to be home at night. If that goes away, then I absolutely agree we should get the save as anyone else flying the same equipment.

VPS is a seasonal base. Expect 2 TDYs through the low season months of September-April from each seat. CA TDYs usually go voluntary as the commuter pilots elect the voluntary TDY option. In the summer season expect TDYs into VPS. Usually around 6-8 pilots per seat.

Right. The regional lifer gig. A lot of us have been there and it's a great run. Right up until the music stops. There are more defunct regionals than there are ones currently operating. There were a lot of us out of work when Comair shut down at one of the worst times to get a job.

Anyone staying at Allegiant and letting the biggest hiring wave in our lifetimes pass by is seriously gambling. Maybe this place will make it, maybe it won't. May the odds be ever in your favor.

I wonder if wide body pilots would take less pay because they sit in cruise 90% of the time and sleep half the time while they’re getting paid…..

No, they have to pay up or we close down. That's it.

“Home every night” is not a quid pro quo negotiated benefit; it’s a business strategy that is irrelevant to contract negotiations. Looks like the management trolls are at it again.

The people posting here that home every night is not a benefit is curious at the least. Why would anyone be here if not for the home every night model? Why are KC, Marg, 310, V2, tailend, etc why are y’all still here?

Actions speak louder than words. y’all haven’t left and my guess it’s because y’all really value the home every night benefit. If you don’t value it then I truly have no idea why you would possibly stay. Why else would anyone stay?

Please feel free to chime in because the only thing keeping me here is home every night and I have to assume that y’all are in the same boat.

If you live in base, this place, even with all the warts and vindictive management is the best airline for people who truly value the out and back model and being home 99% of the nights.

So let's negotiate it in. Premium pay required for any overnight or TDY. Promise you I'm not management, hell I havn't even started yet. But I can tell you that I am more interested in being home for my family than I am in making $250k. They need my time more than they need my money. I think some of you would be all too happy to fly trips like delta, etc. I am not.

You never know what a given person’s situation is; they might be in a position where it’s simply not possible to leave. I’m sure if you use your imagination you can think up a few scenarios where that would be the case.

It’s not $250k anymore, more like $350+ year 2. Year 12 $450-500+. Some legacy fleets have 20-30% day trips. It doesn’t take long to hold shorter trips and only spend 4-6 nights a month away if you live in base.

Give it up dude. You're fighting a 1 man fight to keep your sweet gig at the top of the pyramid scheme going.

I get it. You know that this place will shut down if they can't get meat in the seats and you have no other options. You're scared.

But continuing to sell a pyramid scheme to unsuspecting pilots is a shady move.

In base is the key. I would be a commuter from either the Destin area or Orlando area

What's the length of these TDYs? I could handle a week or two once or twice a year, but not a month.

TDY’s are for the entire bid month.
They positive-space you there at the beginning & home at the end. Anything in-between is on you.
There are some general seasonal trends of how they TDY, but it’s hard to predict. You won’t know if your base is affected ‘till bids come out the month prior. You might never get hit some pilots have been TDY’d 6 or more months in a year. I personally know 3 pilots that I flew with who quit & moved on because of repeated TDY.

Huh?? Keep dodging the question I guess. But it is the elephant in the room: why are y’all still here and calling everybody fools, suckers, naive, etc for staying here or considering coming here?

Actions speak louder than words. As long as y’all stay here your doom and gloom scenarios just don’t carry much weight. They are simply anonymous rants on the interwebs.

I’ve never sold a pyramid scheme: I’ve only ever said that this place is only possible if you live in base and that those bases are likely Midwest small bases. In 2021 was the only one on here saying that a TA won’t happen until 2024 at the earliest - even when AR and his lapdogs were spreading unrealistic expectations (KC was adamant that I was a management tool for saying AR was out of touch and naive at how long negotiations would take).

Those are pretty much it? Oh and you didn’t like my take on railroads strike threat affecting airlines - after Congress acted I’ll take my victory lap on that one too.

You should pull up my 2021 post, I kept saying it would take 4-7 years and you would easily be a legacy CA before we get a TA, which has already played out. I even mentioned breaking the 121 record for the longest expired contract is on the table.

The real elephant in the room is how you make assumptions, jump to conclusions, and fail to read the room/see the big picture. The only fool and sucker still here is you.

Haha, but still no one wants to answer the question why they stay. "None of your business". Is it that much of a secret?

Ill go first: I stay because I value my family time more than Delta/AA/United money. The day I have to spend 2-4 nights a week away dragging a bag through a hotel again will be awful. Been there done that. Thats just me. Everyones situation is different and obviously QOL mileage here WILL vary.

Will this place implode and I will be forced to go work at a Legacy? Maybe. Maybe I will give up flying altogether at that point. I want an industry leading CBA here as well, but Im not an "idiot" for passing up the biggest hiring wave blah blah blah.

Yupp, being home each night is big reason for me! As I'm sure, it's true of most people that entertain the idea of coming or come here..in this job market.

Those tools that say 'leave if you don't like this place' have no idea why someone might still be here, have no idea why they came here or anything in between. If your happy, be happy and be quiet.

If its so great why do we have such an attrition problem at the bottom of the seniority list right now? I think you will find they are leaving fast. Not staying, leaving. Is it because maybe QOL is terrible for the junior guys and they experience the suck and say now way I'm out? You senior guys who have the QOL, do so at the expense of the junior guys. And you are threatened because if enough junior guys leave, your base may close or you may get downgraded, or worse - you may end up on reserve in a base you don't want. So for those still listening and thinking of coming here, those posting rainbows and unicorns here need you to do the **** work so that they can have their easy life at your expense. Any rocking of the boat threatens them,

I wish I had never set foot in this place but I am very much stuck due to circumstances beyond my control right now. And no I am not going to elaborate. So to you ass hats telling me to leave, I say NO.

I will fight from the inside to improve this place or at the very least prevent anybody making the same mistake that I made in coming here.

Need therapy much? So if someone is happy with this place they have to just shut up and not make a peep?

Actions speak loud than words…if it was as bad as you say it is then you’d leave too.

Be realistic and look at what you are saying: I can’t leave, I’m forced to be here, I have no control over my career.

This place has plenty of warts and our contract is an embarrassment to the industry. Management is vindictive. But being home every night 99% of the time is a major QOL for some of us and the only reason I can fathom somebody would stay here or come here vs legacy hiring.

I take no issue with anyone deciding to be a Allegiant lifer or prioritizing QOL over money. Just understand that we will negotiate the best industry-standard contract possible, period. The company decides where and how to operate the airplanes. If day trips are here to stay, that’s not part of our benefits package. Management and their apologists on here will try to tell you otherwise.

This is something we can all agree on.

Still a stunning lack of SA here, lol.

Correct. Major vested interest in the top echelon ensuring that the slaves belowdecks keep rowing.

Who exactly are "the slaves belowdecks"? Are they the reserve pilots that have consistently had the lowest reserve utilization in the industry? Are they the junior line holders that get stuck working every Friday/Sunday of the month?

Are there some reserve pilots that get jerked around? absolutely, I have repeated it to everyone who asks that sitting in reserve in FL would be terrible at least four months out of the year...TERRIBLE.

Sitting reserve in a small base is incredibly cush. You get called out a couple times a week. Some small bases (BLI) the reserves don't even fly enough to get their landings.

If you want to liken sitting reserve in FL to being a "slave belowdeck who must keep rowing" then whatever. I think it might be a little out of touch, but I don't judge. Siting reserve in LAS or IWA can be a pain, but i still pick up RAPs to pad my pay and roll the dice because its still not that bad and in most cases its free money.

And for new hires, who are most certainly going to a small base, sitting reserve is generally pretty nice. If you're trying to get to FL, I'd forget about it because your QOL will be way different than most of the pilots across the system. Just my two cents.

You’re seriously talking about getting a clearance as working harder… LOL. Out and back is a whole of hell lot easier than 4 legs and 12+ hr duty days.

PDC is definitely a stretch, but there are tons of 4 leg 12+ hour duty days here too. We just do them for half the pay of everywhere else. Whatever base you’re in must be one of the lucky ones if you can avoid them.

home every night = 4 leg days 3 days in a row to min rest in your bed with pushed show times?