Florida is just one city according to crew scheduling.

I heard they hire a ferrying company to perform these flights.

Such a witty retort.
If you want to hide behind "I'm not a test pilot" fine. All aircraft performance numbers were demonstrated by company pilots. If they're not safe, take it to the FAA/Boeing. You should probably limit yourself to half weight, half crosswind, and double the amount of runway needed. Where does it end? If someone isn't comfortable with the performance of the airplane, maybe they're not ready to be captain.

I mean everyone is just a line pilot, not test pilot. I believe I can operate Flight Sim within the performance limits though so I'm good.

@EagleATR- don't worry about the dispatcher calling you names, your airplane does it for you. Yours is different though. You had numbers that said otherwise. The ROA case was about being comfortable.

Who exactly are you and why do you care?

You have no idea how many times we've flown questionable aircraft into questionable conditions. How often dispatch here is negligent. How much internal fortitude it takes to stand up against the amount of pressure they put on you here. Yet there you go pushing your case time and again.

Either you're from another airline and actually are a dispatcher or pilot and you decided to add your two cents again and again to a company you have no concept of or you are a part of the machine here at Allegiant. Either way I don't find you nearly as important as you do.

I know they have been using a lot of contract crews to ferry airplanes around. We don't have enough pilots now to cover the regular schedule, let alone have anyone on reserve.

The current class is 35 remaining, mostly -80. We paid for lodging initially, the company has backed off a little though. Looks like MIA and LAS new hires are both getting hotels w/ rental cars for sim training. We're also on full 70 hr guarantee as well from day 1, no PD.

+1 I think this guy made the right call, I would rather have my family on a plane with someone who is more cautious. I also bet that there was another mel (or two).......

Allegiant- For line holders and reserves: what is the average monthly credit for each? Is it normal to exceed the 81 hour threshold, or does the company avoid that so as not to pay "overtime"? How many are awarded less than guarantee?

And how many days off/month for line holders?

Any allegiant people able to give a pie - sbn load check for this afternoon (friday)

5 open seats

Guarantee is 70 hours for both line holders and reserve.

Flying varies month to month for both line holders and reserves. Some months reserves fly 50-60 hours, and some months they fly 100. A lot of months there isn't anyone on reserve because there aren't enough pilots to have any.

Line holders range from 70-105, depending on the month.

Min days off are 10 on reserve, and 11 as a line holder. It's reducible to 8. Training also counts as days off, which you don't get paid for under some circumstances.

In the past, the lines during September and October were 40-60 hours, but that ended last year due to not enough pilots (at least where I'm based at, other bases may be different).

Thank you sir, much appreciated

Thank you for the info!

I understand the minimum days off is 11, but does everyone actually get 11? Or is 11 near the bottom and it gradually gets better with some seniority?

I don't care. I look at Allegiant threads on occasion to see how things are since I could've been there.

I don't find myself important either but find it amusing that you haven't answered any questions other than saying it was the captains choice. I had agreed to that point since the beginning.

Enjoy the view from the right seat just like Eagle. I will bow out since all anyone can say is join management.

Generally speaking, it doesn't matter what your seniority is - the most senior CA and most junior FO can expect similar (awful) schedules. Seniority doesn't mean much around here.

This is the case more so now with the new 'PBS' type scheduling system. After the "computer" generates the schedules, the company goes back in and assigns all the open flying to our schedules (not in order of seniority, either)..

Unless you are the Assistant CP of the smaller NW base, then you just disregard seniority and pick up the primo trips that you want.

Aww c'mon Swede, don't take it so personal, management folks aren't that bad, they just don't know what the he11 they're doing. That's why they sit safely behind a desk. Lol. Seriously man, lighten up.

I probably wouldn't have a problem going into ROA with the autospoilers inop. What I would have a problem with is doing the carpet dance after the fact for landing when the penalty on T/O is so big that you can't depart.

Since no other department in the company thinks more than 5 minutes ahead, how could they expect the pilots to do so?

If we didn't, the place would grind to a halt. Weren't we supposed to just be sitting in the seat, drinking coffee, and reading a checklist by now?

True except for the fact they could not sell them anymore.

That's the beauty of Allegiant. The pilots will never be accused of a job action, because we don't HAVE to. Just stop propping up the operation and it topples by itself.

Sad but true and a valid strategy.

Unfortunate, but true. But it does leave quite a hole in the higher capacity, long range routes. The 739 doesn't quite cut it.

It cuts it on the vast majority of the routes 757's fly at a far lower cost. Cost is king. Most airlines seem to plan on keeping some 757's for the few routes the 900 can't handle until something better shows up.

I will just about guarantee that by the time something better shows up, most here will be beyond caring.

I didn't read all 11 pages of this thread, but I saw this and felt it needed to be addressed. This is a statement that shows a fair amount of ignorance of labor law, especially the RLA. Having been on strike, I speak from experience.

I have no doubt that management is going to play as many games as possible, since this is a first contract, but a strike is, at best, several years away for a number of reasons. Realistically, it's not likely to happen, especially given that Allegiant has a sizeable presence in some politically important states (Florida and Arizona). I'm not saying it can't happen, I just don't think it will happen.

More than likely, the company will drag this out for 2-3 years, and then when the NMB gets serious about initiating the cooling off period, they will finally put a serious offer on the table.


To the OP, this is easy: go to Allegiant. It will be MUCH easier to get a job at a major once you've flown mainline equipment. Further, and this may be the most important thing, Allegiant controls its own product. RAH does not. Don't underestimate the importance of that.

This statement is false. The majority of our passengers do not originate from these two states. The Arizona side is a small, stagnated part of an already minimal presence on the west coast. You ask any average Phoenician about g4, they don’t know who you’re talking about. G4 was not issued any major slots in critical city’s, no EAS either. G4 doesn’t move the DOT needle. No congressman is going to be phoning the DOT asking why he can’t get back home. In this sense the corporate mantra will work in our favor, “were a travel company” is more accurate from an essential air carrier standpoint.

G4 is also a bad neighbor airline; local Florida news is constantly reporting passenger frustration stories, i.e. our melt down last winter, was all over the local airways. Passenger’s stuck for days, holidays ruined. Have you heard of our numerous air returns? Local Florida news has.

Politically important? Not g4. Our flight attendants have gone before the NMB previous and are becoming very familiar with our emt’s strategy. NMB has made statements recently reflecting their concern for g4’s lack of cooperation. Everyone here is familiar with the RLA, we can read too. Will we strike tomorrow, of course not. Will it take several years, I don’t think so.

I don't know about the details, but I gather there's ongoing discussion that the Federal Courts finding of status quo violations may be enough to initiate strike actions. The RLA apparently allows for this and this company is spending big bucks scrambling to reverse the court-ordered injunction. Is this because they know they can't fix their mess fast enough to avoid a strike? Who knows, but they will continue stumbling, and eventually hand the union the dagger. Things are getting interesting and the bulk of our pilots are wanting to strike.

Status quo violations during a time like this are, well, status quo. The RLA is not in any way on the employees' side. Historically, the NMB does not allow a job action until 1 of 2 scenarios has played out: all but a few sections of a contract are agreed upon (pay is always last), OR the disparity is so wide that there is no hope (Eastern is a good example of this). The second example takes much, much longer to play itself out, and the company only has to be able to show some form of progress.

As for "wanting to strike," believe me, I understand the frustration. I've been there, and done that. But understand this: nobody wins in a strike. The problem is that the company will say that at a certain point, they will have to shut down or shed jobs because of the losses. By then, their credibility is so far gone you don't know when to believe them. It's a fine line.


The majority of the passengers may not originate from those two states, but the businesses that they frequent (and their lobbying associations) will make a lot of noise. Further, there are some big political names in those states that carry a lot of weight in DC.

I wish you guys the best of luck, but I wouldn't be holding your breath for a strike anytime soon. Don't forget, this works both ways: once the cooling off period is over, they can lock you out. I don't know that they would, but they do have that option.

Aside from our steady march towards a lockout. G4, via F&H’s guidance is getting their butts kicked in Federal court. We got some not so small victories coming our way.

The majority of our passengers are not affluent and/or business essential types. I doubt those businesses alone will have that kind of pull, didn’t in Spirits case.

Go both ways, Lock us out? That would be MG’s wet dream. I’m sure if it were his world, he would do just that. This is a public company, too many stakeholders will have something else to say.

Do NOT underestimate this possibility.

More Lies from this disgruntled guy... no one wants your job.... stop giving the Frontier guys a bad name. Why hasn't the moderator banded him yet?

Since I'm the one you called ignorant, I'll chime in here. While you may have past experience with striking, I think you know little about our business model and our management. First, if we disappeared tomorrow, nobody except Ma and Pa in Wichita would notice. We don't carry mail, have no EAS routes, and we have virtually zero effect on interstate commerce. Second, negotiations have been going for almost 2 years now and have accomplished very little. We've been in Mediation for months now and from what we are told, the mediator is growing tired of management's "surface bargaining".

Of course they could lock us out, but with shareholders and countless vendors wondering where their customers went, the stakes are high and shutting the business down for any appreciable period of time just because the pilots want a couple more bucks would send the stock price into a tailspin. In the end, that's all that matters.

How far fetched would "a new" airline startup be that is brought on line in parallel but seperate with g4 and a stock swap done and then a lock out?

I'd be looking for crazy plays like that since the management is ex Value Jet.

And I probably am 2 million miles off... Good luck, if g4 strikes no scabs... That needs to be really understood there is a thread or two here just search.

Spirit was in negotiations for a little over four years when the NMB released them. Didn’t take several as you indicated. We have been in negotiations for over two years now. Tic-Tok, Tic-Tok… Your statement to the contrary is ignorant of our most recent and relevant strike, by a like carrier.





Same sort of threats baldanza made to the spirit pilots. Baldanza tried replacing his pilots, how did that go? At the time they were a privately held company. Only one person calling the shots. What happened? He lasted what a few days? Whole strike didn’t last a week. I guess we now know who was bluffing who? Just like we will here. Regardless, I can only speak for myself, I’m not ready to walk the line, I’m ready to walk away.