PHL E190 skinny
 

What are the pro's/con's of the E190 out of PHL?

For someone who prefers PHL basing, would it be worth grabbing one as a new hire or would it be better to try to get AB LGA and then bid PHL later on?

I had read it is possible to get 2nd year Group 2 pay in the E190, but didn't quite understand that. Can anyone elaborate?

There are no real Pros and Cons other that he pay rate and the fact that there are only 19 E190's. The low number of aircraft makes for very little open time to use to trade for or to allow for scheduling flexibility.

The pay for Group II while flying the E190 arises from being able to bid off the airplane, and anyone can do that if just a few months, but not being able to be trained. While a person awaits training on a higher paying piece of equipment he gets paid the higher rate.

As an old US guy, I know many who loved that situation. If you were a senior block-holding F/O and were awarded captain then you got paid for a full block of time, rather than min guarantee. At US this was 85 vs. 72hrs. It was like being a senior captain on the equipment. Same pay and good schedule.

If you want PHL absolutely take the 190. Now that there's only a 6 month seat lock for new hires you're assured of being able to bid a group 2 plane before your year is up. When there was a one year seat lock there was a chance you'd not hit the bids right and be on year 2 group 1 pay for a few months while your classmates on the 320/737 were making $30 an hour more than you.

Pros: Fast movement. Hold a line after a few months. First year pay is the same, so you'll make more than your classmates that took the A320/737. Easy airplane to fly, simple systems. You'll get more flights, so getting to know the plane and the company will happen faster. If you want to sit short call reserve and not fly, 190 FO probably sees the fewest sick calls. Nearly everyone is on probation and doesn't have a sick bank yet.

Cons: Limited number of cities it flies to. There is a lot of BOS/LGA/DCA shuttle flying but there about a dozen other cities as well. Fewer planes/fewer lines/less options, but then again, you'd probably be on reserve on the 320/737.

Pros of the e190:

— The aircraft pays the same the first year as all other aircraft.
— The e190 is easy to learn so you can focus more on learning the flight operations manual and transitioning to a new airline.
— You will become senior very quickly as most first officers bid off the aircraft at the first opportunity.

Cons of the e190:
— You may be held on the e190 after you are awarded another aircraft. [/LIST]

Being held isn't a Con. It's a benefit. Making group 2 pay with a kick butt schedule.

For most. But for the guys who have a crazy 2/3 leg commute to PHL being held is definitely a con.

True. But having more control of your schedule helps take some sting off of it.

TankerDriver,

What are your concerns? With that info, we can give you better info. When is your class date?

I assume you are Air Force. One thing that was great about the 190 for me (also AF) was getting lots of reps in some of the toughest airports to operate out of (LGA, DCA, BOS). I learned a ton about airline ops. I really enjoyed the long Manhattan, BOS, and D.C. layovers (though under the new LAA rules, long layovers are pretty scarce now). I did a ton of sight seeing. You also will really appreciate the easy flying on the Airbus later on.

I'm new hire AF trying to decide. Everyone I talk to loves the AB, but the big question I have about the 190 (since the $ is the same, i.e. group 2) is how long I might be "stuck" before I could move to something else.

No doubt the AB has much better trips (IMO), better basing options, and is a more comfortable machine to fly. The big advantage of the 190 is the potential high QOL first year. I had every weekend off by the 9 month point (YMMV) and 2 weeks off at Christmas (AETC style!). I know as an AF guy you're thinking, "I'll probably have weekends off by year 2 anyway" (I know I hought that). It's probably 2 years before you'll get weekends off on short call and 3 to 4 for Long call, depending on the base of course. Line holder weekends off...I have no clue. This is mainly due to the way PBS works. When it's building the schedules and gets to the point where it needs pilots to work weekends, it will do it's best to make every remaining pilot work weekends. You can adjust your schedule and get some weekends off, but that takes some skill and luck as well.

You could be held for up to a year after you get awarded the Airbus. But...you will be paid at the group 2 rates starting in the month of your award (and at year 2) So you'd have the best of both worlds, high QOL and better pay.

As far as getting stuck on the plane long term. It is possible, but not very probable. We need to hire like crazy right now, and as long as that's the case, there will be movement. Now, if there were a game changing world event (Sept 11, 2001) or major recession, etc. yes you could get stuck.

If PHL is a tough commute for you, I'd avoid it.

If you bid the 190 plan 1.5 years on it. 6 months to bid off, then held for a year. Like others have said you'll get the higher group 2 pay while having an awesome schedule on the 190. I don't know if they are still pulling guys off of trips for IOE, but my last few months on the 190 I'd get pulled off of about one trip a month, with pay.

Thanks for the data. That helps the process.

Now that the seat lock is only 6 months I fly with lots of guys who are heading to training on the 73 around the 9-10 month mark. They all seem to be headed down to Miami. So don't count on being held for a year.

Anyone see the 2 pairings in May with redeyes in them? They are ugly.

Which red eye are you guys doing?

Embrace the redeyes. They make pairings commutable

Ew no. You know I'm a finely-tuned machine. Nights are for sleeping.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...c6e49be3b5.jpg

I could only find these two pairings.

Wow that is incredible. If guys fly that complete trip then we have no hope at all. Looks like AA is putting safety first.....not.

The Raleigh one isn't bad. The DFW one sucks.

Those red eye pairings are both terrible. The RDU one is two legs starting early, so not to easy to get sleep. The LGA one is unacceptable. You go from working super late at night i.e. The red eye part to a super early show time the next day. If you sleep right after the red eye portion, you won't be able to easily fall asleep that night. If you wait to sleep until night you'll be a zombie. I know this is how some international pairings work, but those are bad domestic pairings IMO

Agreed. Is there a way for APA to flag these pairings as unsafe so similar ones won't be built in the future?

They both go through DFW. One from RDU and one from LGA. The LGA one is 4 days and pays 17:00. Plus has that awful late to early flip flop.

Those pairings suck, but we have the same on the airbus.
PHX-SAN-CLT redeye
PHX-LAS-CLT redeye
PHX-SLC-CLT redeye

12 hours at the hotel then 2 legs back to base. This is their "solution" to increase pay on slash trips.

Fatigue
 

Those are unsafe. Period dot. Make the fatigue call after the first leg of those 2 leg all nighters and I bet within a bid period, they will disappear. APA can do nothing...

PRS,

I actually haven't gotten a call yet, but I'm hoping to hear something soon. I am a full-timer in an ARC unit. PHL is my 1st choice of basing.

Thanks for the info.

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Good Luck! Hope you get a call soon. You can't go wrong with either the 190 or Airbus. Either one will get you to PHL quickly.

Let a DFW 190 crew fly the red eye leg......oh wait. AA will soon become nothing more than Mesa Grande.

Let's not forget the crew that brought us the "Who wants that flying anyway".

Best part also of the 190 is I've had some EPIC 34 hour layovers that have rivaled some of my regional day good times!!! You'll fly with great younger Captains that want to go out and actually drop the hammer and have a good time.

This makes your first year on it much worth it.

As a UPS guy...the RDU doesn't look *too* bad.

The LGA trip looks awful.

PHL E190 skinny
 

Yes. Call in fatigued. That's it. Simple. There's no reason these pairings should be made, they are legal but incredibly unsafe.

Edit: My first fatigue call was while I was on probation - never heard a word about it. Just be sure to follow the APA instructions and send it to them first for QC. FRM folks keep up with the bad pairings, and are great to deal with.

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Can someone speak to the commutability of PHL 190 flying? (specifically from DFW).

I'm observing these comments and thinking that getting a commutable line in PHL will be an ideal way forward while marking time to let seniority build.

Background:
- I'm approaching retirement, with AA being my likely choice as DFW metro is where I'm planning to settle
- Medium term goal: DFW 737 or 320 (sounds like it is taking ~18 months to bid into one of those)

I am thinking that these may end up being the two initial choices (if the current landscape remains unchanged):
- Bid 190 PHL; bid up to 737 or 320 ~ one year mark and likely get held, stay in PHL with "senior" bidding power and G2 pay;
- Bid 737/320 as available out of the gate; likely sit reserve or junior lines in LGA/MIA until senior enough for DFW

Concern that I may have is too many people trying to work the same thing, ending up with less movement and thus getting "stuck" relatively junior in category and on reserve for most of that time. Is that likely?

Any thoughts... am I missing anything?

If you are approaching retirement, why is starting over at the bottom of seniority list, commuting half way across the country to a reserve line even a consideration?

I fly with tons of new hire 190 FOs who commute from Dallas. It can be a rough commute, you better have the JS reserved immediately. Also, lots of A3s between phl and dfw.

Your plan is solid but don't overthink it. It's only temporary before you get back to dfw.

Sorry... approaching mil retirement, at the same time approaching the start of a new career. Will be starting at the bottom of the list where ever I end up.

Oh, that makes more sense.

Another option is to take the junior 737/A320 assignment (Looks like LGA), as soon as you can hold a line you can drop your LGA trips (sometimes), and pick up trips in DFW.

PIT based pilot here and leaning towards United or American for in the future.

Currently flying the 170/175, so if I go AA I'm leaning towards the E190 initially and would probably rid it out till the end.

What cities specifically is the 190 flying? I was under the impression they were more or less just the shuttle planes, but I noticed on the other new hire thread they have Domestic and International fleets?

I commute from DFW to PHL E190 and it really isn't bad at all once you're a lineholder. There are 8-9 mainline flights a day (more than half Airbuses with 2 jump seats), and just about all of the E190 trips are commutable on at least one end. Once you have a line, you can reserve the jumpseat and not worry much about the commute unless there are thunderstorms, etc.

I absolutely hated commuting to reserve and wasting away in a crashpad, but fortunately reserve was only about 2 months short call and 2 months long call for me. I was able to have weekends off and all commutable trips at the one year mark and now I'm being withheld from the Airbus while bidding in the top 10% on the 190 . Not a bad way to wait it out until I can hold DFW.

Unless I lived in a junior AA base or on the west coast, I would definitely pick the 190 again. The advancement is very quick and you can bid off of it in time to get second year group 2 pay. The only real downsides are having to go through another initial and not being able to pick up trips out of other bases.