Pay raise announced
05-01-2017 | 05:09 AM
#81
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 1,238
Likes: 0
So why the Company change of heart?
Now, reading the latest 10-Q (first quarter 2017): We currently have a higher than normal number of pilots eligible for retirement. Among other things, the extension of pilot careers facilitated by the FAA’s 2007 modification of the mandatory retirement age from age 60 to age 65 has now been fully implemented, resulting in large numbers of pilots in the industry approaching the revised mandatory retirement age. Further, in July 2013, the FAA issued regulations that increased the flight hours required for pilots working for airlines certificated under Part 121 of the Federal Aviation Regulations. In addition, on January 4, 2014, more stringent pilot flight and duty time requirements under Part 117 of the Federal Aviation Regulations took effect. These and other factors, including reductions in the number of military pilots being trained by the U.S. armed forces and available as commercial pilots upon their retirement from military service, have contributed to a shortage of qualified, entry-level pilots and increased compensation costs, particularly for our regional subsidiaries and our other regional partners who are being required by market conditions to pay significantly increased wages and large signing bonuses to their pilots in an attempt to achieve desired staffing levels. The foregoing factors have also led to increased competition from large, mainline carriers to hire pilots to replace retiring pilots. We believe that this industry-wide pilot shortage is becoming an increasing problem for airlines in the United States. Our regional partners have recently been unable to hire adequate numbers of pilots to meet their needs, resulting in a reduction in the number of flights offered, disruptions, increased costs of operations, financial difficulties and other adverse effects, and these circumstances may become more severe in the future and thereby cause a material adverse effect on our business.
But now the real question comes to the fore: Should myself or anyone keep their AAL Stock? Some will say no one should buy stock in their company and live to tell about. While laughable, there are some good reasons to buy company stock. But NOT airline stock and NOT AMERICAN anymore. I have a small amount but it will be gone shortly. The company JUST WON the arbitration grievance with the F/A's an the pilot contract was locked in until 2020. The Company ALREADY has given a profit sharing program OUTSIDE THE CONTRACT. And now they have a change of heart AFTER a roughly 7.8% decline in pretax margin? I don't see the Company being as profitable NOR competitive in the years to come and that does not bode well for those who hire on here now. Compensation discipline is LOST now (of course Executive stock compensation also gives everyone pause) so why be a stockholder if you work here. Better to take your money and run.
So, however, the DRIVER for the mid-contract compensation change for the Pilots and F/A'S is NOT, from a UNION point of view but a Company, market driven impetus to remain competitive for pilots, even though its a money looser. But if the Company is making an end-run around the Contract, and looking at comparatives in the industry, what exactly is the union purpose in the first place?
Now, I am NOT complaining about the 8% increase in pay NOR if anything else materializes between now and 2020. I have 5+ years left (maybe more if the FAA ups the age ante) and unless there is a catastrophic downturn of some kind I'll still be well positioned for future earnings. But what I see here is the Company giving in to a poorly thought out and negotiated contract by the unions in the first place and rewarding those who are STILL in union power reaping the Company change of heart into some kind of victory. What victory? A voting victory like this?
APA BOARD OF DIRECTORS VOTING CONFERENCE CALL:
The APA Board of Directors is scheduled to conduct a voting conference call beginning at 2 p.m. Central on Monday, May 1 regarding management's offer of pay rate increases. APA will live stream this call so the membership can listen to the proceedings. A link on the alliedpilots.org members' home page will provide a path to the call.
That’s it for now. Thanks for checking this hotline.
No negotiating (Section 6), no heavy lifting by the union. Just A VOTE (over the phone, no less).
Some believe (without ANY data that the vacation float was effective or ineffective, though I will give the benefit of the doubt it could have had SOME impact) that MORE contract loophole chicanery could be in order if the Company doesn't give in to our "plights". We had a contract, we were locked in and there really wasn't ANYTHING we could do to change it other than chant "GOING FOR GREAT, GOING FOR GREAT"! So my thought process is if the Company drives the Contract improvements over the next many years based on industry comparisons, what good is the union for?
All I can say is the future has yet to unravel but if a VOTE is all it takes for the union to determine whether we get pay raises and benefit improvements my last question is:
WHAT WILL YOU DO IF THE UNION VOTES NO??? (I'm assuming they'll vote yes but for future reference just a "what if"). I know you hate me, but I'm just asking the question.
05-01-2017 | 05:29 AM
#82
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 420
Likes: 0
Union
The point of the Union is to protect me when I tell crew scheduling "no, thanks" when they try to break my contract. And get me paid when I make a valid fatigue call. That's about all I've seen APA sucessful at over the last 3 years.
05-01-2017 | 06:05 AM
#83
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 1,826
Likes: 0
From: 6th place
Well, first let me post the latest link to the analyst reviews from last week: American Airlines announces pay raises, and investors balk - LA Times.
So why the Company change of heart?
Now, reading the latest 10-Q (first quarter 2017): We currently have a higher than normal number of pilots eligible for retirement. Among other things, the extension of pilot careers facilitated by the FAA’s 2007 modification of the mandatory retirement age from age 60 to age 65 has now been fully implemented, resulting in large numbers of pilots in the industry approaching the revised mandatory retirement age. Further, in July 2013, the FAA issued regulations that increased the flight hours required for pilots working for airlines certificated under Part 121 of the Federal Aviation Regulations. In addition, on January 4, 2014, more stringent pilot flight and duty time requirements under Part 117 of the Federal Aviation Regulations took effect. These and other factors, including reductions in the number of military pilots being trained by the U.S. armed forces and available as commercial pilots upon their retirement from military service, have contributed to a shortage of qualified, entry-level pilots and increased compensation costs, particularly for our regional subsidiaries and our other regional partners who are being required by market conditions to pay significantly increased wages and large signing bonuses to their pilots in an attempt to achieve desired staffing levels. The foregoing factors have also led to increased competition from large, mainline carriers to hire pilots to replace retiring pilots. We believe that this industry-wide pilot shortage is becoming an increasing problem for airlines in the United States. Our regional partners have recently been unable to hire adequate numbers of pilots to meet their needs, resulting in a reduction in the number of flights offered, disruptions, increased costs of operations, financial difficulties and other adverse effects, and these circumstances may become more severe in the future and thereby cause a material adverse effect on our business.
But now the real question comes to the fore: Should myself or anyone keep their AAL Stock? Some will say no one should buy stock in their company and live to tell about. While laughable, there are some good reasons to buy company stock. But NOT airline stock and NOT AMERICAN anymore. I have a small amount but it will be gone shortly. The company JUST WON the arbitration grievance with the F/A's an the pilot contract was locked in until 2020. The Company ALREADY has given a profit sharing program OUTSIDE THE CONTRACT. And now they have a change of heart AFTER a roughly 7.8% decline in pretax margin? I don't see the Company being as profitable NOR competitive in the years to come and that does not bode well for those who hire on here now. Compensation discipline is LOST now (of course Executive stock compensation also gives everyone pause) so why be a stockholder if you work here. Better to take your money and run.
So, however, the DRIVER for the mid-contract compensation change for the Pilots and F/A'S is NOT, from a UNION point of view but a Company, market driven impetus to remain competitive for pilots, even though its a money looser. But if the Company is making an end-run around the Contract, and looking at comparatives in the industry, what exactly is the union purpose in the first place?
Now, I am NOT complaining about the 8% increase in pay NOR if anything else materializes between now and 2020. I have 5+ years left (maybe more if the FAA ups the age ante) and unless there is a catastrophic downturn of some kind I'll still be well positioned for future earnings. But what I see here is the Company giving in to a poorly thought out and negotiated contract by the unions in the first place and rewarding those who are STILL in union power reaping the Company change of heart into some kind of victory. What victory? A voting victory like this?
APA BOARD OF DIRECTORS VOTING CONFERENCE CALL:
The APA Board of Directors is scheduled to conduct a voting conference call beginning at 2 p.m. Central on Monday, May 1 regarding management's offer of pay rate increases. APA will live stream this call so the membership can listen to the proceedings. A link on the alliedpilots.org members' home page will provide a path to the call.
That’s it for now. Thanks for checking this hotline.
No negotiating (Section 6), no heavy lifting by the union. Just A VOTE (over the phone, no less).
Some believe (without ANY data that the vacation float was effective or ineffective, though I will give the benefit of the doubt it could have had SOME impact) that MORE contract loophole chicanery could be in order if the Company doesn't give in to our "plights". We had a contract, we were locked in and there really wasn't ANYTHING we could do to change it other than chant "GOING FOR GREAT, GOING FOR GREAT"! So my thought process is if the Company drives the Contract improvements over the next many years based on industry comparisons, what good is the union for?
All I can say is the future has yet to unravel but if a VOTE is all it takes for the union to determine whether we get pay raises and benefit improvements my last question is:
WHAT WILL YOU DO IF THE UNION VOTES NO??? (I'm assuming they'll vote yes but for future reference just a "what if"). I know you hate me, but I'm just asking the question.
So why the Company change of heart?
Now, reading the latest 10-Q (first quarter 2017): We currently have a higher than normal number of pilots eligible for retirement. Among other things, the extension of pilot careers facilitated by the FAA’s 2007 modification of the mandatory retirement age from age 60 to age 65 has now been fully implemented, resulting in large numbers of pilots in the industry approaching the revised mandatory retirement age. Further, in July 2013, the FAA issued regulations that increased the flight hours required for pilots working for airlines certificated under Part 121 of the Federal Aviation Regulations. In addition, on January 4, 2014, more stringent pilot flight and duty time requirements under Part 117 of the Federal Aviation Regulations took effect. These and other factors, including reductions in the number of military pilots being trained by the U.S. armed forces and available as commercial pilots upon their retirement from military service, have contributed to a shortage of qualified, entry-level pilots and increased compensation costs, particularly for our regional subsidiaries and our other regional partners who are being required by market conditions to pay significantly increased wages and large signing bonuses to their pilots in an attempt to achieve desired staffing levels. The foregoing factors have also led to increased competition from large, mainline carriers to hire pilots to replace retiring pilots. We believe that this industry-wide pilot shortage is becoming an increasing problem for airlines in the United States. Our regional partners have recently been unable to hire adequate numbers of pilots to meet their needs, resulting in a reduction in the number of flights offered, disruptions, increased costs of operations, financial difficulties and other adverse effects, and these circumstances may become more severe in the future and thereby cause a material adverse effect on our business.
But now the real question comes to the fore: Should myself or anyone keep their AAL Stock? Some will say no one should buy stock in their company and live to tell about. While laughable, there are some good reasons to buy company stock. But NOT airline stock and NOT AMERICAN anymore. I have a small amount but it will be gone shortly. The company JUST WON the arbitration grievance with the F/A's an the pilot contract was locked in until 2020. The Company ALREADY has given a profit sharing program OUTSIDE THE CONTRACT. And now they have a change of heart AFTER a roughly 7.8% decline in pretax margin? I don't see the Company being as profitable NOR competitive in the years to come and that does not bode well for those who hire on here now. Compensation discipline is LOST now (of course Executive stock compensation also gives everyone pause) so why be a stockholder if you work here. Better to take your money and run.
So, however, the DRIVER for the mid-contract compensation change for the Pilots and F/A'S is NOT, from a UNION point of view but a Company, market driven impetus to remain competitive for pilots, even though its a money looser. But if the Company is making an end-run around the Contract, and looking at comparatives in the industry, what exactly is the union purpose in the first place?
Now, I am NOT complaining about the 8% increase in pay NOR if anything else materializes between now and 2020. I have 5+ years left (maybe more if the FAA ups the age ante) and unless there is a catastrophic downturn of some kind I'll still be well positioned for future earnings. But what I see here is the Company giving in to a poorly thought out and negotiated contract by the unions in the first place and rewarding those who are STILL in union power reaping the Company change of heart into some kind of victory. What victory? A voting victory like this?
APA BOARD OF DIRECTORS VOTING CONFERENCE CALL:
The APA Board of Directors is scheduled to conduct a voting conference call beginning at 2 p.m. Central on Monday, May 1 regarding management's offer of pay rate increases. APA will live stream this call so the membership can listen to the proceedings. A link on the alliedpilots.org members' home page will provide a path to the call.
That’s it for now. Thanks for checking this hotline.
No negotiating (Section 6), no heavy lifting by the union. Just A VOTE (over the phone, no less).
Some believe (without ANY data that the vacation float was effective or ineffective, though I will give the benefit of the doubt it could have had SOME impact) that MORE contract loophole chicanery could be in order if the Company doesn't give in to our "plights". We had a contract, we were locked in and there really wasn't ANYTHING we could do to change it other than chant "GOING FOR GREAT, GOING FOR GREAT"! So my thought process is if the Company drives the Contract improvements over the next many years based on industry comparisons, what good is the union for?
All I can say is the future has yet to unravel but if a VOTE is all it takes for the union to determine whether we get pay raises and benefit improvements my last question is:
WHAT WILL YOU DO IF THE UNION VOTES NO??? (I'm assuming they'll vote yes but for future reference just a "what if"). I know you hate me, but I'm just asking the question.
tldr
filler
05-01-2017 | 08:11 AM
#88
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 5,299
Likes: 0
From: A320 Capt
Also, we are an extremely old group. Many here have met the number they need to retire. The optimizer is literally exhausting guys. I think
Management is realizing if they don't do something, Captains may just retire. Early retirements cost a lot more than a new hire leaving within a few years of getting hired. I would expect to see improved work rules soon...
Management is realizing if they don't do something, Captains may just retire. Early retirements cost a lot more than a new hire leaving within a few years of getting hired. I would expect to see improved work rules soon...
I was completely wrong about profit sharing and this raise. I thought Carey was nuts. I thought we should have tried to fix things like LTD, calendar day and A3 DH and live with the rates. Maybe they will get some other fixes.
05-01-2017 | 08:23 AM
#89
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 209
Likes: 0
If they keep reassigning line holders I don't think any pay increase will keep guys happy.
4th trip in a row they have reassigned me now. And to make it clear all of my re assignments have been favorable to me (more pay, got home earlier, less legs and one even got me an extra day off) but I'm worried about this all of the sudden using of line holders as mobile reserves. I've been lucky so far but I fear they got a taste of what they can do and this summer the sh1t will hit the fan.
4th trip in a row they have reassigned me now. And to make it clear all of my re assignments have been favorable to me (more pay, got home earlier, less legs and one even got me an extra day off) but I'm worried about this all of the sudden using of line holders as mobile reserves. I've been lucky so far but I fear they got a taste of what they can do and this summer the sh1t will hit the fan.
05-01-2017 | 08:44 AM
#90
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 1,826
Likes: 0
From: 6th place
If they keep reassigning line holders I don't think any pay increase will keep guys happy.
4th trip in a row they have reassigned me now. And to make it clear all of my re assignments have been favorable to me (more pay, got home earlier, less legs and one even got me an extra day off) but I'm worried about this all of the sudden using of line holders as mobile reserves. I've been lucky so far but I fear they got a taste of what they can do and this summer the sh1t will hit the fan.
4th trip in a row they have reassigned me now. And to make it clear all of my re assignments have been favorable to me (more pay, got home earlier, less legs and one even got me an extra day off) but I'm worried about this all of the sudden using of line holders as mobile reserves. I've been lucky so far but I fear they got a taste of what they can do and this summer the sh1t will hit the fan.
I think the 190 is a little different since there's only one base and it's a small fleet. Not much flexibility like the bus or 73.
I've been reassigned pretty often as well. Only once was it worse than my original trip.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
