What's the deal with STL? Any commuters?
09-27-2017, 12:22 AM
#1
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Joined APC: Aug 2007
Position: BBJ Evaluator
Posts: 25
What's the deal with STL? Any commuters?
Getting ready to retire from AF in 8 months and weighing airline options. I'll be retiring to STL. Not the best location, but somewhat centrally located for commuting. Looking for QOL over money at this point.
I've heard STL isn't really a hub and shouldn't really be considered. Can someone explain this? As a new hire, how long would it take to hold STL (if at all)? What are the trips like from here?
If STL is not likely, is there a base I could potentially fly from that would put me overnight there? I'm assuming airframe would be MD80s, any 737s overnight STL? Or if commuting anyways, would another airline/carrier be better suited?
Would love to hear from anyone commuting from STL to hear how you make it work (airline, airframe, years with company, days away from home, days being paid, etc). Obviously looking for what to expect year 1 and 2.
Thanks in advance!
I've heard STL isn't really a hub and shouldn't really be considered. Can someone explain this? As a new hire, how long would it take to hold STL (if at all)? What are the trips like from here?
If STL is not likely, is there a base I could potentially fly from that would put me overnight there? I'm assuming airframe would be MD80s, any 737s overnight STL? Or if commuting anyways, would another airline/carrier be better suited?
Would love to hear from anyone commuting from STL to hear how you make it work (airline, airframe, years with company, days away from home, days being paid, etc). Obviously looking for what to expect year 1 and 2.
Thanks in advance!
09-27-2017, 01:08 PM
#2
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2011
Posts: 209
Not an STL guy but you'll be commuting with plenty of Tway guys. Most go to either DFW or ORD unless they take the CA positions in LGA or MIA.
As far as commuting goes in general some basic rules that apply reguardless of where you are going to commute to/from.
1. One leg commutes are always better vs 2 legs.
2. Leave yourself a backup. Meaning 2 flights. Reserve the JS on your backup flight. If you get on your first call and CX your JS reserveaion.
3. In dicy conditions leave a day early or plan on driving if feasible. For example STL to ORD very drivable. It may just be better to suck it up and get there sacrificing a few hours at home in return for knowing you don't have to rush when all the flights CX or are filled.
4. Spend a little more for a nice crash pad if you know you're going to be based at that location for the duration. Especially if you will be on reserve. Some older guys will join up (say 3 or 4 that have the same or approximate retirement years) and buy a 2 bedroom condo. 2 to a bedroom (own bed) and a living area are much much better than 10 sharing a cheap crash pad. But to each his/her own. When it's time to retire they sell the condo and crashpad car(s). You may spend a little more i the long run but your commuting stress especially on reserve or if you can't get home will be way less.
It's been 10 years since I've had to commute. Commuting is an art form in itself. Some can't do it at all and some do it their whole career. You have to feel out what works for you.
Good luck
As far as commuting goes in general some basic rules that apply reguardless of where you are going to commute to/from.
1. One leg commutes are always better vs 2 legs.
2. Leave yourself a backup. Meaning 2 flights. Reserve the JS on your backup flight. If you get on your first call and CX your JS reserveaion.
3. In dicy conditions leave a day early or plan on driving if feasible. For example STL to ORD very drivable. It may just be better to suck it up and get there sacrificing a few hours at home in return for knowing you don't have to rush when all the flights CX or are filled.
4. Spend a little more for a nice crash pad if you know you're going to be based at that location for the duration. Especially if you will be on reserve. Some older guys will join up (say 3 or 4 that have the same or approximate retirement years) and buy a 2 bedroom condo. 2 to a bedroom (own bed) and a living area are much much better than 10 sharing a cheap crash pad. But to each his/her own. When it's time to retire they sell the condo and crashpad car(s). You may spend a little more i the long run but your commuting stress especially on reserve or if you can't get home will be way less.
It's been 10 years since I've had to commute. Commuting is an art form in itself. Some can't do it at all and some do it their whole career. You have to feel out what works for you.
Good luck
Last edited by Sam York; 09-27-2017 at 01:36 PM.
09-27-2017, 03:41 PM
#3
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Joined APC: Aug 2016
Position: Relaxed
Posts: 6,949
STL was kept as a Base when AA bought TWA in 2001. The unofficial reason was for the St. Louis based TWA pilots to be able to continue to fly the MD-80s without commuting.
As those legacy TWA pilots have retired, the base has shrunk.
What will happen in the future? Will STL be kept as a base? Will it continue to shrink as more legacy TWA pilots retire or will they backfill with newer pilots? I don't know but I am not too optimistic about newer pilots holding STL. Of course, plans could change totally and I could be completely wrong.
What will happen when the MD-80s are retired in the next couple of years? My guess is they will be replaced with 737s.
What about living in STL and commuting? Most flights out are to DFW and ORD. There are a number of them each day. Basically STL acts like a mini hub (some would argue with that) with PAX being funneled into DFW and ORD. Loads vary. Usually there are seats.
I don't see that many pilots getting a jump in and out. Mostly the senior captains that now flying larger aircraft. I know several captains who are 60+ who could upgrade. They have said commuting for a few years of larger pay just was not worth it. If they had been 50, that would have been a whole different story.
The reality of the SLI (Seniority List Integration) was such that the top half of the TWA pilots were offset downward by several years, compared to their legacy AA pilots. The junior large group of pilots were stapled to the bottom, below the most recently (as of 2001) hired LAA pilots.
As a result, only a few from STL are able to hold wide body captain slots. In the next decade I doubt there will be that many more.
As those legacy TWA pilots have retired, the base has shrunk.
What will happen in the future? Will STL be kept as a base? Will it continue to shrink as more legacy TWA pilots retire or will they backfill with newer pilots? I don't know but I am not too optimistic about newer pilots holding STL. Of course, plans could change totally and I could be completely wrong.
What will happen when the MD-80s are retired in the next couple of years? My guess is they will be replaced with 737s.
What about living in STL and commuting? Most flights out are to DFW and ORD. There are a number of them each day. Basically STL acts like a mini hub (some would argue with that) with PAX being funneled into DFW and ORD. Loads vary. Usually there are seats.
I don't see that many pilots getting a jump in and out. Mostly the senior captains that now flying larger aircraft. I know several captains who are 60+ who could upgrade. They have said commuting for a few years of larger pay just was not worth it. If they had been 50, that would have been a whole different story.
The reality of the SLI (Seniority List Integration) was such that the top half of the TWA pilots were offset downward by several years, compared to their legacy AA pilots. The junior large group of pilots were stapled to the bottom, below the most recently (as of 2001) hired LAA pilots.
As a result, only a few from STL are able to hold wide body captain slots. In the next decade I doubt there will be that many more.
Last edited by TransWorld; 09-27-2017 at 03:53 PM.
09-27-2017, 03:49 PM
#4
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2005
Position: MD-11 FO
Posts: 2,180
Originally Posted by Sam York
2. Leave yourself a backup. Meaning 2 flights. Reserve the JS on your backup flight. If you get on your first call and CX your JS reserveaion.
Do not reserve the Jumpseat on 2 flights!
09-27-2017, 04:40 PM
#5
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2011
Posts: 209
Originally Posted by EMBFlyer
DO NOT DO THIS!!
Do not reserve the Jumpseat on 2 flights!
Do not reserve the Jumpseat on 2 flights!
List (as in nonrev) on 2 flights. On your second flight, your backup, reserve the JS (if possible). If you get on the first flight CX the JS reservation.
This is how it was done in my commuting years. I don't think it's changed I the last 10 years since I've had to commute.
Last edited by Sam York; 09-27-2017 at 04:55 PM.
09-27-2017, 05:25 PM
#7
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2005
Position: MD-11 FO
Posts: 2,180
Originally Posted by Sam York
I didn't say to reserve the JS on 2 flights. What part of "Reserve the JS on your backup flight" didn't you understand? Please explain to me where that implies reserving the JS on both flights.
List (as in nonrev) on 2 flights. On your second flight, your backup, reserve the JS (if possible). If you get on the first flight CX the JS reservation.
This is how it was done in my commuting years. I don't think it's changed I the last 10 years since I've had to commute.
List (as in nonrev) on 2 flights. On your second flight, your backup, reserve the JS (if possible). If you get on the first flight CX the JS reservation.
This is how it was done in my commuting years. I don't think it's changed I the last 10 years since I've had to commute.
09-27-2017, 05:44 PM
#8
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2011
Posts: 209
Originally Posted by EMBFlyer
Why wouldn't you just reserve the Jumpseat on your first flight? If you're Primary, you're essentially guaranteed the seat (save from a rogue A3) and our commuter policy requires 1 flight.
09-27-2017, 06:19 PM
#10
You scratched my anchor
Joined APC: Feb 2011
Posts: 4,876
Originally Posted by Sam York
I didn't say to reserve the JS on 2 flights. What part of "Reserve the JS on your backup flight" didn't you understand? Please explain to me where that implies reserving the JS on both flights.
List (as in nonrev) on 2 flights. On your second flight, your backup, reserve the JS (if possible). If you get on the first flight CX the JS reservation.
This is how it was done in my commuting years. I don't think it's changed I the last 10 years since I've had to commute.
List (as in nonrev) on 2 flights. On your second flight, your backup, reserve the JS (if possible). If you get on the first flight CX the JS reservation.
This is how it was done in my commuting years. I don't think it's changed I the last 10 years since I've had to commute.
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