Joliet

Would AA mainline pilots be onboard with spreading this supposed $25/hour raise for JUST wholly-owned pilots across all AA/WO Pilots if let’s say something like seniority numbers were offered to the WO pilots instead of the “flow through.”

We have guys flowing from the WO to AA taking 50-60k paycuts as it is. I’d rather see the money spread across all seats not just the express/wholly-owned ones.

Reference Endeavor/Delta TA for pay raise (where is this money coming from)

Full disclosure, I am a WO pilot, about 10 years.

Al Czervik

If you have a number here you need to be part of this pilot group.

Joliet

Seems like a good idea.

Name User

Are WO guys getting $25/hr raises?

Wow

Good for them but it costs 60% more to run an RJ already just based on CASM, at what point does management stop the RJ expansion and start with mainline to lower costs?

I’m fine with seniority numbers as long as they don’t try to integrate into our ranks...mainline would go above the WO’s and we’d just merge, that way we can bid your equipment and you can bid ours.

mainlineAF

I don’t understand the question. What $25/hr raise? And you mean you’d get an AA seniority number when you start at a wholly owned?

Bob Loblaw

How do you figure that? The hourly rate of RJ captains flowing over is really close to current new hire pay rates.

Name User

And if they are they’re working a LOT more than we are

I made into the six figures at my place but flew 3x as many block hours...

TrinityDawn

Now that's funny right there.

AAG is only going to do what is absolutely necessary. Their intent is to keep the cheap labor at the regionals operating at cheaply as possible for as long as possible. Doug Parker and company aren't going to match the Endeavor pay rates unless our new hire classes start taking a serious hit in numbers. The management trolls in the envoy forum keep claiming flow to AA is the only thing we really need to be competitive. I seriously doubt AAG will ever offer AA numbers to WO new hires. First, because APA had a say in that process, and second because they want to hold the ability to flow over our heads for discipline purposes (after the protected pilots, you can't flow if you have an active "attendance issue," which basically means crew scheduling gets to do whatever they want and you have to play along, and don't call in sick too many times or dare ask F+H Solutions for FMLA.) Without a number, your flow is at their mercy, and that's exactly what they want. Numbers will never happen at the WO's unless things finally and epically break down and they merge them into AA, which will be the absolute last desperate step they would take if nothing else was working to staff the regionals.

Allegheny

"AAG is only going to do what is absolutely necessary. Their intent is to keep the cheap labor at the regionals operating at cheaply as possible for as long as possible. Doug Parker and company aren't going to match the Endeavor pay rates unless our new hire classes start taking a serious hit in numbers."

YOU ARE ABSOLUTELY 1000% CORRECT. The flow is a cost control tool and pay-rates will not be modified until it is proven that the "flow" doesn't work as planned.

Joliet

I was really hoping someone who knew what was going on at the regional level would comment, or give an opinion.

Management knows flow isn’t going to stop junior pilots from leaving to other airlines. They know they have to at least match Endeavor. Regurgitating low level recruiter/chief pilot nonsense at envoy isn’t going to help. Totally different at PSA and Piedmont.