LuckyNow

Maybe when first year pay was at pre-JCBA levels guys were taking pretty big hits coming over, but now it’s like $90 an hour. I’m not feeling too much sympathy for a guy coming into that.

I think when the question of getting seniority numbers comes up, you need to ask yourself, how does that benefit AAG and/or the pilots of American? If we make it so that pilots at the regional level have numbers and transition to mainline jets with that seniority, we will be far and away the last choice for military pilots and others transitioning from non-regional airlines. If we tack your largest RJs into our group one, the cost advantages to the company are lost, and who will fly to Peoria and in what?

I’m not trying to rain on your parade, but handing out seniority numbers really only benefits one of the three groups in this equation.

Flying101

I couldn't agree with you more. I personally think wholly owned pilots should have a preferential interview versus just coming over. Seems like we (AA) is passing on a lot of great pilots by limiting new hire slots. It's simple, if you work for a wholly owned carrier, you don't apply, you don't do the first day of interviews (computer stuff), you simple go in for day 2 and do the face to face. Go through the same review board as all the street hires have.

Flying101

Have you been drug tested lately?

Sheg0theD

So what’s the attraction of a military guy over a guy who has busted his balls in a 121 format who may actually have CRM( no offense Single seat drivers) . I have nothing against military guys, ( I have flown with many competent fantastic stick military guys and some
Not so good) but I know a bunch of 121/135 guys who have 5000TT 3000 jet pic world wide experience and yet can’t get a call for an interview at a Major.. granted I am just another AWG ( Average White Guy) who meets the quals like everyone else. So for someone like me Envoy was my only option to get in the right direction of a “Flow” with the hopes of going to mainline prior to the flow.

(Yes I have a clean record and no failed checkrides.. however I don’t have a degree and still to this day I don’t see how a psychology degree makes someone more desired then flying experience)

I also mean no disrespect to our service men who serve for our freedom, but mil guys can literally name what major they want to go.



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Rawhide16

Are you implying that mil folks don't have CRM experience?

Unfortunately, your opinion regarding the importance of a degree means jack. The airlines are the ones that do the hiring and they seem to find some value in a college degree or else they wouldn't require/desire it. Until they change their mind, you will likely be waiting for a call. I'm not saying I agree or disagree with the degree but they're obviously not having much trouble finding qualified people with one. When they start having trouble finding people with a degree then maybe they'll change their mind.

Sheg0theD

I hinted at the lack of CRM for the single seat guys. I only say this out of personal experience. I am not saying all mil guys lack CRM.

I agree my opinion means nothing... Maybe one day I can convince them a degree means nothing in our profession..


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Mover

You don't think single seat fighters use CRM? And your personal experience is based on flying at Envoy?

Otterbox

That would actually make regional flying more expensive for AA... instead of folks all exiting under the 12 CA/ 4 FO pay scale they would create professional regional pilots that are long term and expensive. Additionally AA would have to continue to be an industry leader in pay at its WOs to staff (both features of endeavor, and both things AAG has sought to move away from in recent contract negotiations with its WO pilot groups).

The flow is designed to keep AAs Wholly Owned regionals staffed as cost effectively as possible in order to keep its domestic routing profitable. Don’t think for one minute AA cares about who is sitting in the seats of their aircraft as long as they’re qualified and safe.

AA is one of the most competitive airlines to get into OTS because of the flow. If they decide to give seniority #s to the WO pilots they’re not going to worry about turning folks off to applying to them OTS. Plenty still will apply because at the end of the day you can make as much sitting in the right seat at AA as you would in the left seat at a lot of places and the allure of working for a Legacy. AAG will just encourage more folks to come work for the AA WO and double down on that being the path to a garaunteed seniority # at AA.

AA giving WO pilots seniority #s will help both WO recruitment and retention (folks will be less likely to leave to DAL, SWA, UAL etc of they know their seniority# they get as a WO pilot will afford them Better retirement standings at retirement if they stick it out for a few more years flying an RJ).

It wouldn’t surprise me if AAG offered its WO pilots mainline seniority#s in exchange for PBS and more cost efficiencies in salaries/benefits after the current 10 year flow agreements expire in the early 2020s... if the economy hasn’t tanked again by then to decrease pilot hiring elsewhere.

Sheg0theD

I predominantly have a 135 background.

I knew I would get lashed out at for that statement... my point was not to bash mil guys or fighter pilots. Why does a mil guy get preference then a civilian who has more experience in a sense of flying?

For example:

Single seat fighter will get hired on at a mainline carrier with 1500 total time.. (yes I know a majority of his time is all turbine PiC)


Civilian 5000 hours 3000 jet pic multiple crossings and world wide experience. Radio Silent.


The Mil guy is more attractive on paper then the civilian. Why?








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sailingfun

Your answer probably lies in the rest of the resume. It also lies in the fact major airlines all have a feedback loop from hiring through training. They know what applicants do the best in their programs and attempt to recruit additional pilots based on that feedback. It goes as in depth a specific regional airlines that seem to produce pilots with below average results. Other regionals can be held in much higher esteem based on their pilots performance. Think SkyWest verses Silver airways aka Gulfstream air.
Just a add to your CRM comments. If the opportunity ever comes up sit in on a brief and debrief for a tactical military sortie. It might be eye opening for you.






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