Much appreciated, sir.

Thanks for the advice. I gotta’ dig and figure out who is at AA I know. Just about everyone I have worked with went non-AA.

Bingo. Right on.

Basically they want us to fork over our money and give it to people with a fake grievance industry racket so they can fly around the world telling us how superior they are. Got it.

No thanks.

I never said that. I was responding to someone who did.

Which is why I asked the original question. Sounds like I’m average on times. It is what it is.

Yeah. My times are average.

Meh. No skin off my nose. I’m doing fine where I am and this thread has reminded me of that. I’m done chasing rainbows.

No kidding. Where I grew up this was just called common decency. The hypocritical regressive virtue signaling makes me want to gag.

Reassuring for who? Please remind us, how is being a white guy not a bonus here in the United States. You clearly don’t get it. Good luck in your future, Sir.

Being an American of any color is a bonus. You clearly don't get it. Good luck in your future, sir.

In my observations the women are at least getting the interviews first over men if you stick them side by side. Not always getting hired, but getting looked at first for sure.

It's anecdotal, but one of the guys I used to fly with got hired at United because I encouraged him to apply.

"They'd never hire me, man."

"Are you kidding me? You're black. They'll hire you tomorrow. Guys like you are a rare commodity. You're in demand. If you don't apply I'll kill you."

He applied. He never came back. Across the board I had better quals than he did in every area and had my app in longer. We worked at the same non-121 company (it wasn't even Part 135). Again, anecdotal, but draw whatever conclusions you want. He got hired. I never even got a call.

I'm not complaining, btw, don't take it that way. It's just your post brought it to mind.

Nah. I dont think so. I think when you were hired you thought you could bring that agenda to AA. Its not gonna work because you are wAAy too aggressive about it. So before you go and start a gofundme page for your next “friends of Dorothy” cruise, please consider who you are working with more than who you are employed by.

Ugh. This entire thread is a troll thread/pity party for white guys that feel that they've gotten the short stick in life.

If you can apply to a major, you've had it pretty good in life compared to most of the world. You keep complaining about minorities and you don't even realize that 95%-97% of airline pilots are still white guys. Maybe they have something you don't huh?

(I've not gotten the short stick all things considered. I'm a blessed individual by any measure.)

They have something I don't, all right. When I was flying into places like Afghanistan, Somalia, Angola, Rwanda, etc. they were doing round trips from St. Louis to Cedar Rapids. :)

LOL. Why'd you change your post? (Original below.)

Hitting the bottle a little early this evening? :rolleyes:

And you call *US* trolls. HA HA.

My thanks to those who have actually contributed useful info to this thread. I think it's "NUFF SAID" time.

Gotta agree here. This thread is way past due for a padlock.

Because I started to sympathize with you for a microsecond, and then I read through the rest of the thread.

Your victim complex is frankly, laughable. You seem to act as if minorities and women get jobs in major airlines because of some "reverse discrimination" epidemic against white guys while simultaneously ignoring the fact that the vast majority of airline pilots are white men.

Lock this thread up, I don't care. You've already done what you've come here to do.

Where in the hell did you get the idea I have a victim complex?

I asked why I wasn't getting a call and was told my times are "average" -- others took the thread off the other direction, not me. Though perhaps they are right.

The fact is there are people with lower numbers than I do getting the call. Why? Beats me. Doesn't matter. I'll wind up where I'm supposed to be and I'll make the best of it.

I make no judgments on "minorities" (I have to wonder what kind of person even sees people like that rather than just as another human being, but whatever)--or anyone else for that matter--other than on a case by case basis . If they can fly great. If not, oh well.

There are good and bad in any group. But as an experiment I should pull a little Elizabeth Warren action and see what happens. Then when I get the call you'll say it wasn't because of that and I'm a conspiracy theorist blah blah blah.

You're a real peach btw.

Santini,

Check for a PM

Received with thanks.

Airlines don't want to get sued.
Airlines don't want a PR nightmare on their hands.

If you don't believe preference is given to certain groups you're lying to yourself. Having said that I think it was necessary given the past history of treating POC badly. Yes, technically it's not fair but it is necessary.

About 50% of AA new hires are flows.

Of the other 50%, 50% of that, is military.

So, you are looking at competing for 1/4 of the available slots at AA.

You are probably doing everything right.

Keep updating.

BTW, as for networking; Yes, get letters etc. but from what check airmen have told me, it's all a computer matrix in the beginning; Like applying to the government. Lots of boxes to check. The more boxes you can check, the better off you'll be to get an interview, then it's up to you after that.

I recently flew with a check airman who's son got the thumbs down...:confused:

Maybe you can join a Guard unit?

You are competing for an extremely small number of slots with thousands of other applicants, MANY, MANY that are also highly qualified.

2018 looks about the same percentages as the graph below, just larger numbers of new hires overall this year.

So for reference on what you are competing for, 2017 example: you are trying to get one of those 60 civilian off the street slots. (A VERY IMPORTANT non PC thing this graph doesn't show is at least half of those 60, more than likely went to diversity hiring). Embrace it, Accept it, learn to Love it, lol. It seems to be working for them and It is the new reality at ALL companies in this day and age. So getting down to brass tacks, really you are competing for about 30 slots or less IN A YEAR in that Purple sliver on the right side of the graph. 2018 will be 800-900 new hires I think they claim, so about 76 slots off the street maintaining the same 9-10% (non mil) off the street hire per class/year. Then cut that 76 in half to get your true competition number, unless you can check a diversity box that will improve your odds of getting a call. That is the current reality of what you are facing. Those odds are not great with thousands of apps on file from the lost decade of CA's racking up thousands of hours of TPIC. There is literally Thousands of HIGHLY qualified regional guys out there, not to mention everyone else.

For example: Like many others out there, I had multiple Jet type ratings, over a decade of 121, perfect training record, high GPA, 121 Check Airman, years of 121 TPIC, tons of volunteer time, diverse employment background with lots of accomplishments pre aviation, countless internal recs, job fairs, which I showed up at physically fit with a nice suit and professionally done resume "if that stuff even matters" who knows. App in for as long as I can remember and never a phone call, not a sniff, not a peep from any Legacy. Ever. I thought type rating number 5 may help, Nope, More TPIC? Nope. Ok, Check Airman will finally get me a call for sure? Nope. Professional resume review/guidance may help? Nope. None of it got me past whatever crazy hiring matrix there is. Maybe it's just me? Would make more sense if I at least got an interview and then bombed it, but I never did, so I don't think that's it. Also hardly any of my similarly qualified check airman friends got calls (at the big 3) either over the years, thinking we were doing all the right things to move up our career's. So who knows. Honestly, I wouldn't be here at AA now without flow through. It is what it is. People talk trash on flow being a joke on this website constantly, but I am thankful for the opportunity and it got me out of Regional hell. Finally.

I have to say, we all know it is EXTREMELY frustrating seeing FAR less qualified people hired at the Legacy carriers over the years, with pretty much no life experience, hardly any job experience, no Captain experience even as they get hired from the regional FO seat, but finally I just accepted the new reality of hiring practices and just moved on with life. I see it in other fields as well, it's not just a pilot thing. Personally, I just stuck it out forever at a wholly owned carrier eating American Eagle crap sandwiches for what felt like an eternity. Without hopping around to tempting other opportunities that kept popping up (like many other peers did). I just stuck it out waiting for my number to come up, realizing hiring is the way it is now. I have no illusions thinking I would be at a Legacy right now without Flow. Seems ridiculous whenever you see those token 23-25yr old people with virtually no life/work/practical experience hired at Legacy carriers, sometimes with multiple offers shockingly, but whattayagonna do other than shake your head and roll with it? It is what it is. Good for them I guess. Life isn't fair. This career has definitely proven that lesson to me at least!

Years ago when a lot of us started flying we were all told to get 121 TPIC and become a Check Airman and you will be at a Major ASAP. That isn't the case anymore with HR heavily involved in the hiring process at these carriers now. That unwritten rule of THE path to a Legacy is in need of a re-write. Being the most qualified pilot "on paper" doesn't guarantee you ANYTHING these days. It probably should, but from what I have seen over the years at DAL, UAL and AA.. it is really becoming almost irrelevant. So plan accordingly. AA in particular is virtually impossible off the street for a civilian guy right now. Certainly no harm in applying and trying your butt off, but the odds are just not good. Just based off percentages of what is left over after Flow-through/Military, the odds are just not in your favor. Imagine a stadium full of 10,000 great civilian guys with tons of experience and they are only going to pick about 40 of them for the year. :eek:

Saying all that, I do think AA did a good job with my new hire class. I felt like it was a really good group overall. Flow/MIL and Diverse, just like I expected.

http://oi66.tinypic.com/2pq98qa.jpg

https://aapilots.aa.com//uploads/temp/7608.JPG


Here’s a graph of the hiring numbers for this year.

Very small slice of the pie left over for the common non diverse regional folk.

Oh Hank!! How are those “other” groups being represented?

The real question becomes for applicants at AA is how can AA sustain the same percentages of flows vs off the street military and civilian as retirement numbers increase. On April 1st we had over 50 pilots retire, quite of few of them went early. I think this trend will increase every month until 2023 when we hit peak retirements. I think the number of off the OTS civilian hires will increase. The question becomes: can AA sustain the loss of Captains from the 3 WO’s? I think the greatest pool of qualified applicants will begin to increase from the smallest slice of that purple pie. Maybe? Best of luck to all.

~ Three times larger than the slice left over for regional "diverse" folk.

I'm not up on the latest, but the % of female pretty closely tracks the % of female ATP holders.

Is that out of line?

No, that’s not out of line. But in one year they stated they’d hired 2x the expected number of females. That doesn’t happen randomly. That over hiring had to come from the other sub pools of candidates. If it was taken from the other minority sub pools they’d have been almost wiped out that year. Some group, or groups, had to take the hit to over hire from a different group.

Sooo true soooo depressing ty

The point is it is just much easier for them to get a call. Percentage wise. I don't really care either way, that is how things are done but it is an undeniable fact the odds are in their favor.

Simple numbers.. If there is 200 Females out there competing for 20 reserved slots a year vs 10,000 males competing for 20 slots a year. Who has VASTLY better odds of getting a call? Both being non military.

1 in 10 odds vs 1 in 500 odds..... obviously I don't know the exact numbers of apps/gender applying but you can get a rough idea of the probabilities each group has.

It’s not easier for any specific group if they’re getting hired at the same rate as their overall percentage is.

5% of pilots are in sub group A? And 5% get hired? That’s to be expected. Less or more than 5%(+/- a bit) and it’s not random.

I know a relatively attractive female that started flying with zero hours in 2011 who is now at Delta! I mean STARTED (began) flying in 2011. Holy $hit.

Ever think women and minorities work harder to advance because that's all they know? Their whole lives they have to constantly prove themselves worthy of voting, driving, having a job. Now enter pilots who always want to perform.... The female and minority pilots still have to prove themselves worthy. I still hear the saying"another empty kitchen" by male pilots referring to female pilots.

I think it's much more likely that females and minorites are getting hired "easier" in your eyes simply because they are the ones preparing for job fairs, being active in the job fairs and the community and then of course going above and beyond what's considered normal... All because it's burned into them at an early age.

Wow just wow

How does that work? What path did she take...what experience and education can one get that fast...and how does delta explain that if a crash occurs?!?

Haha. Are you with the bros or not?

Six years is enough time to get to the lower end of the current hiring curve. Lots of people have met that bar.

And in previous hiring cycles the flight time numbers were lower and a lot of the pilots hired were guys.

Minorities have a tougher road to getting established in this profession. But so do poor kids, or kids who have no college or even H.S.(!!) graduates in their family, to help mentor them. So WAI and OBAP, among other organizations, are great for the mentorship and support they provide. But when it comes down to the bottom line the job isn’t a glee club, it’s a job that has performance standards that have to be met.

Prolly right
Prolly victims of discrimination
Lawyer up, make it a class action, enlist certain segments of the media to argue your plight and expose all those unqualified new hires and unfair hiring practices.