In this day and age, probably won’t be a liability.

That female capt for some other airline who wrecked that plane in LGA had a very long history. Didn’t matter to them.

This! 👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼

What does that mean? The bros?

Well if you gotta ask...

What am I doing wrong?
 

Saudi Arabia is 8000 miles east of here. Hyperbole much?


This is how you do ‘it...’ There are a lot of people in this profession (even poor good looking fat white kids like me) that had a lot of luck, and/or were blessed to have some great help ALONG with hard work and drive. If I didn’t have a few great mentors looking out for me I would not be even close to achieving my childhood dream.

Regardless of where you come from or how you got the job, if you really give a crap get involved in mentoring or hiring instead of pestering the rest of humanity into some sort of woe is me guilt trip. Being involved in hiring is one of the best things I’ve ever done professionally.

If your dad was an airline pilot and you began flying at 10, that’s awesome! If you are a young black girl with horrible family problems that some how made it through life with a great sense of humor, a college flight program and followed her dreams WITHOUT OBAP/WAI that’s amazing - oh yeah - I was on her hiring board - and guess what - she was the most qualified, all around best candidate my reserve squadron had seen in years. Was it because she was a ‘poor black girl that finally made it and we all felt sorry for her? Uhhhhh, no. She was flat out the best candidate and we wanted her at the squadron because she was awesome and showed herself approved at 21 to take on the world. I’ve also sat on a board of a legacy airline CKA’s kid. Another great candidate we were lucky to hire...

1. Don’t turn me into a gelatinous gooey ball of meat and twisted aluminum along with the other 100+ people on board followed very closely by
2. Don’t make everybody around you want to pummel you into that gelatinous gooey ball of meat because you are a horrible human being.

How in the he77 is it that hard?




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

This is astoundingly embarrassing that this topic is even being debated openly and with such cowardice that only a forum can provide.

I’ve heard whining like this... several times... maybe bc I look like the type that would agree, but I don’t... at all. I never have, not before I had a job, and not after. Maybe I was raised by odd people but they taught me that I live in a country where the people who win are the ones who keep their eye on the ball and show up day after day and do their best.

I would challenge any complainer to set there resume side by side, names removed with any minority/woman and I would wager largely that no drastic difference would be found.

I don't think the difficultly in getting hired right now is due to minorities or women, it's the flows. Like was stated earlier, after you finish with the flows and military for each class there is a very very small window for anyone off the street to get hired. It's kind of like after 9/11 with Alaska Airlines. It was tough to get hired off the street, because of the small numbers hired and nepotism. Alaska wasn't my first choice, but I remember guys who only wanted to work there with phenomenal qualifications never getting a call, while sons of senior captains with multiple DUIs walked right in with minimal time. Just the way it was/is.

Thats how they should hire..names removed...select best candidates. Period. But thats not the world we live in. Good luck to all :)

That would end the good ole boy network wouldn't it.

No personal dog in the fight, since I'm retiring soon and not applying anywhere, but can someone show me these "diversity boxes" people check on applications to move to the front of the line? Because after decades in this business and many airlines, I've never seen one.

Quit making excuses for why you didn't get hired/interviewed.

The first three questions on any app.

That's dumb. So you're saying they glean gender and race from the name, address and flight time? Because if you're named Tyrone or Felicia, I guess that says it all? Stereotype much?

Or do you mean the optional disclosure form that clearly says it can't and won't be used for selection? Oh, I get it, it's a CONSPIRACY! They trick people into filling it out, then use it to only hire black gay girls! :rolleyes:

Like I said, stop making excuses.

True story...friend Alex has a gender neutral name had been applying for united for years...one day said whatever...switched his gender to female and got the call next day...coincidence? They loved his story and hired him in interview.

HR quit using them due to a rash of promiscuous box-checking. For example, a suspicious number of applicants claimed to be handicapped gay Eskimos. Now they send out the Diversity Investigative Squad to lurk, spy, and report any posers. :D

Does that include determining if my need for my seeing eye dog is valid?

BS! They hired someone who falsified his application?

Cool story bro.

Gutsy move Mav.Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk

You said it yourself.

You are retiring soon.

You didn’t come up in our era, so you probably have different circles of coworkers and acquaintances.

Many (not all) of the minorities I know have advanced to legacies much more quickly. All my WASPy friends were at military/regional jobs for about ten years before hitting a legacy.

I have a hard time remembering many minorities who even put in three years in the coal mines of regionals. I can think of a couple who got snatched up in their first year.

I even know of a couple of women who were hired at you-know-exactly-where in the late 80s or early 90s who only had a brand new commercial pilot certificate. Right from a Cessna or piper to a Boeing.

Don’t go and try to tell anyone it’s a level playing field. It certainly isn’t.

The reason fewer minorities are represented is because far fewer are pilots. The ones who are usually have a golden career at their disposal.

There most certainly is preferential hiring going on.

https://www.alliedpilots.org/Committ...ership/NewHire


Oh yes, women/minorities taking over.

https://www.quora.com/How-many-black...here-in-the-US

They still represent a pretty low %.


That's my point.

Anyone who expects 4% of anything to comprise 50% of a hiring group doesn't care about equality of opportunity.

Take that BS somewhere else. For every minority you claim to know who’s advanced faster than your white counterparts, I can similarly name a white/male pilot who’s advanced to a legacy faster than his peers. These types of pilots have been children of CheckAirmen, Chief Pilots or just part of the good ole boys club. I’m not calling you racist because I know your “neighbor/best friend is black.” White males are not being discriminated against in this country, and especially not the aviation industry. To claim that minority aviators have an easier path to the flight deck is just plain ignorance.

Well it sounds like you just called him a racist anyway. It's not racist if some of us are simply observing hiring practices. There will always [I] be more white males. That's not the point. The point is, women and minorities are getting the interviews first. But not always hired first. Just an observation. And if this is the same "ghost" from PPW, you have my deepest respect.

You're saying he lied on his application, "they" loved it, and he was hired.

Doesn't pass the smell test.

Some people are lucky. Some people check a box. I have been on the other side of interview tables and I have personally witnessed the “we need to figure out how to hire every single (insert gender/ethnicity here) who walks through the door” speech. Don’t try and tell me that doesn’t happen. I have seen it first hand.

I could provide specifics of people I’ve known, but I won’t. Wouldn’t change anyone’s minds.

To say that “white people” aren’t discriminated against is absolutely crazy.

Every single day, a white guy gets rejected from law school, med school, etc, and etc because “white.” Affirmative action is legalized discrimination. There should be no check marks for ethnicity on any application to any school or job.

How bout that?

Doesn’t that idea strike you as fair?

How is race/gender relevant to what someone can do? Why do we ask on an app?

Your idealism falls far short of reality. We have created a world where discrimination is systematic and required by law. The real issue from my perspective is that it’s never gonna go away. Affirmative action is just as wrong as any of the old discrimination, but it’s something we all put up with because it’s socially acceptable to screw people on account of what people who look like them a hundred years back actually did.

Not One Hundred....less than one generation. Nineteen Sixty Five was 53 years ago. I could give countless examples of how it was socially acceptable in my lifetime to discriminate against people of color and women. I saw it with my own eyes and even participated in it. I still do to a point to this day. I was born in the 70s.

I myself didn't get a second look until I directly spoke with a recruiter at a job fair and took every piece of advice he had and acted on it. It wasn't easy balancing regional pilot life, raising a kid and home life and finding time to improve my odds by volunteering inside the airline, outside the airline in aviation and outside the aviation for the community. But I made it work. That's what made the difference at least for me.

I was once asked to name a famous NFL Offensive lineman....I couldn't (I really am a geek). The person continued that they are all the same as they show up on game day and do their job. He said it was just like every RJ pilot looks exactly the same on paper....a few thousand hours of 121 time, a few more of 121 PIC, no check ride bust, college degree...great...but what makes them stand out? Going above and beyond...one way is job fairs and having the "elevator talk" about yourself clear and concise. Then it's all the extra stuff.

I may be from another time, but I've seen a lot of changes in this industry. And I've flown everything from crap broken down pistons, to Convairs, to turboprop commuters to RJs, to Airbus. And I'll retire from a ULCC. Long career and I never made it to a legacy carrier. But I blame no one except me being at the wrong place at the wrong time, a nearly mid life career change, and starting over a few times. **** happens.

Maybe you and your buddies sat fat dumb and happy in the left seat of an RJ throughout the lost decade, just turning the lights on and off, but now suddenly its ending, you have nothing to show for it but 10,000+ hours and a chip on your shoulder? While the younger ones never gave up, kept networking, kept volunteering, got new ratings, etc.

But no, its reverse discrimination. Yeah it's so hard to be a white guy in an industry that's 95% white and male. GMAFB.

I hope you get out of Expressjet before the music stops. I've been in your shoes (CMR) and it's not fun. A change of attitude may be required though. Nobody is going to buy into the white victim line you're selling. Not with HR doing the hiring. Good luck.

I specifically mentioned legalized discrimination for a reason.

Huge difference between socially acceptable and legalized discrimination.

Affirmative action and all those EEOC laws specifically authorize and promote discrimination against certain groups. Many people think they are about equality. They are not. They actually formalize a legal carve out to authorize and encourage discrimination against certain groups.

As I mentioned earlier, race and gender have no bearing on academic achievement and job performance.

They shouldn’t even be listed on an app.

In my world, candidate’s names would even be concealed when people are looking at resumes and judging qualifications.

That would be true fairness.

So you're saying you think 95% white and male is unfair? What's your goal, 100%?

Women are slightly over 50% of the nation.
People with African descent are about 25%.

Yet these groups represent less than 5% of the industry. Why?

Ever think maybe "back in my day" people only wanted to hire those who looked like them and shared common interests?

That's why HR does the hiring now, not pilots.

I’m saying none of it should matter.

No school app, job app, or anything other life course app should contain any race or gender info.

The names should be replaced with something like random numbers until the app progresses to the interview stage.

When a person sits down for an interview, the vast part of the selection process has been done. An interviewer shouldn’t even have any idea who’s up next, just call a number and the next qualified person steps up.

Fairness is what we are supposed to be after. Legalized discrimination is not fair.

Remember my earlier post? I was an interviewer for a previous employer. It was an airline. I remember how we were told we better hire people from certain racial/gender categories-just rubber stamp them, no matter how weak their knowledge or experience may have been.

That isn’t right. It’s no more right than what used to happen.

Apply to any Wholly Owned regional and flow to AA. No interview!!

Okay. Say you're hiring for a legacy carrier, and you have 6000 applications on file. They all exceed the hiring minimums, and 99% have the same or nearly the same qualifications on paper. You can hire 500. Do you interview all 6000, then go from there? How do you decide who gets interviewed.

Hiring for a small 135/121 carrier isn't the same. They have to use something to set applicants apart. Your argument that women and minorities/special interest groups are getting hired with less qualifications is BS and self serving. The only evidence you've presented is anecdotal. I have friends involved with hiring or recruiting at nearly every major airline. The numbers don't lie.

Customers and shareholders are demanding equality across the board, in all industries. Welcome to the world being run by millennials. Even an aging Boomer like myself can grasp that. so if everyone has the same qualifications, it behooves the airlines to hire some seriously underrepresented people. If you want to call that discrimination, fine, but it's hard to say a 95% majority is suffering from it.

I would decide who gets interviewed simply based on experience/background.

Currently, I think algorithms are used which assign points to various things-before any human ever sees an app. All that ethnic/gender stuff is worth points-and the value of that is probably vastly different depending on airline. I would delete that point system and any redact any way for the algorithm to imply such things from names.

I mentioned a while back I knew of a couple of women who were hired at XXXX back in the day with only temporary commercial certs. 250 hours-and not even a FE license. Both had gotten calls for an interview from airline XXXX without even applying. That airline was actually going down the list of new comm pilots and offering interviews to anyone who seemed like a female. Some had comm certs for other purposes, and had no intention of working for any airline-some just wanted to instruct part time or crop dust, etc..... There are plenty of fine women pilots out there, but I don't think anyone is ready for the kind of flying we do at that experience level.

Your last paragraph is off the mark. Customers and shareholders demand (and deserve) safety and competence. The fun stuff about what people look like should be entirely irrelevant.

Percentages shouldn't matter. If they do, how about I get a sweet gig in the NBA? I suck at basketball-but hey.... There's a % for you-and how about slapping me some majic equality??. Need more people looking like me there, don't we now?? (Why shouldn't their owners/fans demand and expect equality??) Could it be that it's no fun to watch people who suck try and play basketball??

I'd submit that our line of work is much more intolerant of ineptitude or incompetence. Consequences of a screw up are much worse than having to watch boring people who suck try and play a game poorly. Safety is what should matter in aviation. Hiring the best person for the job should be the goal. Other factors should be irrelevant.

I'm sorry but that's just BS. With all the quotas and policies on diversity an average qualified minority or woman pilot will always get the call. This isn't limited just to aviation, in medical school it's much more pronounced.

http://cdn.almost.thedoctorschannel....ethnicity.jpeg

To deny being a minority or woman is an advantage when seeking employment is ridiculous.

A couple of women? Out of 70,000 airline pilots? That's all you've got?

And we are really getting off in the weeds here, but in your example of the NBA, if you're just as good as everyone else, what's the issue? You're inferring you suck at Bball but should be hired because you're a short, fat, nerdy white guy, and that somehow represents airline hiring, for which you've still failed to provide refuting evidence.

You still haven't presented numbers that women/minorities with less qualifications are getting hired before well qualified white males. You're just offering your opinion, and exposing that chip on your shoulder. Every legacy carrier releases hiring stats, and they prove you're FOS.

Thanks for playing.

You are not interested in facts. I see I'm wasting my time here.

I got better stuff on the agenda.

Goodbye. Fare Thee Well!

You also suck at listening, reading, and comprehension.

"Thanks for playing".

So apparently there's an 800 number for pilot hiring that states

Press 1 if you're Black
Press 2 if you have a vagina
Press #7 if you're Black and have a Vagina to schedule for the next available training class.

I read it on infowars so I am certain this is true.

Then why are 50% of African Americans living at or below the poverty line, if they have an advantage gaining employment and opportunities??

Did you look at the recent new hire class?

https://www.alliedpilots.org/Committ...ership/NewHire