New rates?
12-29-2019, 06:30 AM
#33
Line Holder
Joined APC: Nov 2019
Posts: 42
Originally Posted by R57 relay
2 years, got it. Vast experience with this management team and pilot group. I’m not trying to insult you, your opinion is important, but you don’t have the understanding to make the statements you are making.
The lanyard is flat out stupid. I’ve seen many variations of those things, they are never completely used, and never will be. So on that, you are correct...it signals the company, the wrong thing. Robert Isom knew before the APA how many would wear it, and he couldn’t care less.
Pilots always thump their chests on the easy stuff, it’s giving up money they loathe to do.
100% lanyard compliance and not answering phone(unless it’s for MU or premium, and we put in for that) won’t get us a contract.
The lanyard is flat out stupid. I’ve seen many variations of those things, they are never completely used, and never will be. So on that, you are correct...it signals the company, the wrong thing. Robert Isom knew before the APA how many would wear it, and he couldn’t care less.
Pilots always thump their chests on the easy stuff, it’s giving up money they loathe to do.
100% lanyard compliance and not answering phone(unless it’s for MU or premium, and we put in for that) won’t get us a contract.
What does it take to have an understanding then, in your opinion? There are plenty of FNGs that have been on the outside looking in for a decade or more, and paying attention to what has gone on here. AAG is a pretty big umbrella, and all the negotiating tactics seem to be close to the same.
Last edited by Ready2board; 12-29-2019 at 07:04 AM.
12-29-2019, 07:06 AM
#34
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Position: Hot tub for now
Posts: 1,203
Originally Posted by R57 relay
2 years, got it. Vast experience with this management team and pilot group. I’m not trying to insult you, your opinion is important, but you don’t have the understanding to make the statements you are making.
The lanyard is flat out stupid. I’ve seen many variations of those things, they are never completely used, and never will be. So on that, you are correct...it signals the company, the wrong thing. Robert Isom knew before the APA how many would wear it, and he couldn’t care less.
Pilots always thump their chests on the easy stuff, it’s giving up money they loathe to do.
100% lanyard compliance and not answering phone(unless it’s for MU or premium, and we put in for that) won’t get us a contract.
The lanyard is flat out stupid. I’ve seen many variations of those things, they are never completely used, and never will be. So on that, you are correct...it signals the company, the wrong thing. Robert Isom knew before the APA how many would wear it, and he couldn’t care less.
Pilots always thump their chests on the easy stuff, it’s giving up money they loathe to do.
100% lanyard compliance and not answering phone(unless it’s for MU or premium, and we put in for that) won’t get us a contract.
Ok maybe the lanyard thing. It’s a symbol. I’ll wear it.
What does get the attention is not turning in your phone after you’ve arrived at work. What I don’t understand is why captains will use their cell phones while talking to maintenance or dispatch.
Use the radio or go upstairs and find a pay phone. Dispatchers and maintenance don’t use their personal cell phones at work. Why should we? Do we get reimbursed?
The quickest fastest way to get a new contract is by us doing only our jobs.
Without us going the extra mile, flights will leave late. Management won’t get bonuses. (Unless Parker moves the goal posts again)
Once management doesn’t get paid. We will get a new contract.
12-29-2019, 08:40 AM
#35
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2011
Position: A320 Capt
Posts: 5,294
Originally Posted by Ready2board
Pretty condescending statement. "I'm not trying to insult you.....but just gonna insult you".
What does it take to have an understanding then, in your opinion? There are plenty of FNGs that have been on the outside looking in for a decade or more, and paying attention to what has gone on here. AAG is a pretty big umbrella, and all the negotiating tactics seem to be close to the same.
What does it take to have an understanding then, in your opinion? There are plenty of FNGs that have been on the outside looking in for a decade or more, and paying attention to what has gone on here. AAG is a pretty big umbrella, and all the negotiating tactics seem to be close to the same.
Well, I was trying to temper my frustration with FNG.
To have an understanding you have to live it for a while. You can be outside a situation, looking in, and think you have all the answers. It's only when you get in that you see you didn't. Even when FNGs are in, they don't fully get what has happened to this airline and its pilots over the last several decades.
Do you not see completely condescending and arrogant it is to say "If the captains only did..."?
Parker was right, there is a culture problem here. I don't know if it's the beaten spouse/kid syndrome or what, but we are a pretty screwed up group. While we had a contract in place, that the pilots ratified, we were given a big raise, change to rigs and the profit sharing that we SOLD given back to us. Didn't matter, everyone still P.Oed. Every man for himself, not enough consideration for our customers, almost none for our coworkers. Guys thump their chest about showing the company, but if we never did our best, how would the company know if we change?
We will get a contract when it makes economic sense for the company to sign one. Yes, if we all had the collective resolve to make that happen, it could happen sooner than later-we don't. And I have never seen in happen in almost 4 decades. Only when things were so grievous, like at EA and CO, did it happen.
12-29-2019, 08:56 AM
#36
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2011
Position: A320 Capt
Posts: 5,294
Originally Posted by seafeye
Respectfully disagree.
Ok maybe the lanyard thing. It’s a symbol. I’ll wear it.
What does get the attention is not turning in your phone after you’ve arrived at work. What I don’t understand is why captains will use their cell phones while talking to maintenance or dispatch.
Use the radio or go upstairs and find a pay phone. Dispatchers and maintenance don’t use their personal cell phones at work. Why should we? Do we get reimbursed?
The quickest fastest way to get a new contract is by us doing only our jobs.
Without us going the extra mile, flights will leave late. Management won’t get bonuses. (Unless Parker moves the goal posts again)
Once management doesn’t get paid. We will get a new contract.
Ok maybe the lanyard thing. It’s a symbol. I’ll wear it.
What does get the attention is not turning in your phone after you’ve arrived at work. What I don’t understand is why captains will use their cell phones while talking to maintenance or dispatch.
Use the radio or go upstairs and find a pay phone. Dispatchers and maintenance don’t use their personal cell phones at work. Why should we? Do we get reimbursed?
The quickest fastest way to get a new contract is by us doing only our jobs.
Without us going the extra mile, flights will leave late. Management won’t get bonuses. (Unless Parker moves the goal posts again)
Once management doesn’t get paid. We will get a new contract.
We do it because we are paid to do a job! It is our job to get the people that actually pay our salaries from point A to point B. If using a personal cellphone helps you do your job, some do it.
If it was your Mom, Dad, sister, brother, whatever that was trying to get to see their loved one before they die, get to a wedding(fill in the blank) would you like things to move along? Guys, we have a contract! The amendable date is a few days away and we have been acting as if we are years past.
I remember back to the ill conceived USAPA slow down. I was flying with a F/O that was single handedly going to bring the airline to its knees. But we went through HIS commute station and he said "I don't want to mess with these guys, they're good and I have to get to work." Oh yeah, we don't want to crap in your house...
Too bad we couldn't have hired all you guys with all the answers a little bit earlier. We could have had a contract way before the amendable date!
What would you do if you were Parker or Isom? Don't you guys think there was a huge pushback from pilot haters when they gave us the raise, profit sharing and rigs outside of section 6? Don't you imagine when there was no change in attitude around her the pilot haters said "I told you!"? How do you think that is affecting things now? We showed the company that treating us differently doesn't really help the bottom line. When we got those things outside of section 6, did our SE taxi % go up? Did our fuel burns go down? Did our completion factor improve? Did our sick usage decrease because we were less stressed? I doubt it, I never saw the b!@#$%^&* even slow down.
As I said in the above post-if things never worked that well, how can you "show" the company how bad they can be? How did that work for the mechanics? And they have a lot more resolve than the pilots.
For you FNGs, I have a little light reading for you. Do some research on the USAPA restraining order. See what a federal judge did. And don't let Isom's stature lead you to underestimating him.
12-29-2019, 09:04 AM
#38
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Position: Hot tub for now
Posts: 1,203
Originally Posted by R57 relay
We do it because we are paid to do a job! It is our job to get the people that actually pay our salaries from point A to point B. If using a personal cellphone helps you do your job, some do it.
If it was your Mom, Dad, sister, brother, whatever that was trying to get to see their loved one before they die, get to a wedding(fill in the blank) would you like things to move along? Guys, we have a contract! The amendable date is a few days away and we have been acting as if we are years past.
I remember back to the ill conceived USAPA slow down. I was flying with a F/O that was single handedly going to bring the airline to its knees. But we went through HIS commute station and he said "I don't want to mess with these guys, they're good and I have to get to work." Oh yeah, we don't want to crap in your house...
Too bad we couldn't have hired all you guys with all the answers a little bit earlier. We could have had a contract way before the amendable date!
What would you do if you were Parker or Isom? Don't you guys think there was a huge pushback from pilot haters when they gave us the raise, profit sharing and rigs outside of section 6? Don't you imagine when there was no change in attitude around her the pilot haters said "I told you!"? How do you think that is affecting things now? We showed the company that treating us differently doesn't really help the bottom line. When we got those things outside of section 6, did our SE taxi % go up? Did our fuel burns go down? Did our completion factor improve? Did our sick usage decrease because we were less stressed? I doubt it, I never saw the b!@#$%^&* even slow down.
As I said in the above post-if things never worked that well, how can you "show" the company how bad they can be? How did that work for the mechanics? And they have a lot more resolve than the pilots.
For you FNGs, I have a little light reading for you. Do some research on the USAPA restraining order. See what a federal judge did. And don't let Isom's stature lead you to underestimating him.
If it was your Mom, Dad, sister, brother, whatever that was trying to get to see their loved one before they die, get to a wedding(fill in the blank) would you like things to move along? Guys, we have a contract! The amendable date is a few days away and we have been acting as if we are years past.
I remember back to the ill conceived USAPA slow down. I was flying with a F/O that was single handedly going to bring the airline to its knees. But we went through HIS commute station and he said "I don't want to mess with these guys, they're good and I have to get to work." Oh yeah, we don't want to crap in your house...
Too bad we couldn't have hired all you guys with all the answers a little bit earlier. We could have had a contract way before the amendable date!
What would you do if you were Parker or Isom? Don't you guys think there was a huge pushback from pilot haters when they gave us the raise, profit sharing and rigs outside of section 6? Don't you imagine when there was no change in attitude around her the pilot haters said "I told you!"? How do you think that is affecting things now? We showed the company that treating us differently doesn't really help the bottom line. When we got those things outside of section 6, did our SE taxi % go up? Did our fuel burns go down? Did our completion factor improve? Did our sick usage decrease because we were less stressed? I doubt it, I never saw the b!@#$%^&* even slow down.
As I said in the above post-if things never worked that well, how can you "show" the company how bad they can be? How did that work for the mechanics? And they have a lot more resolve than the pilots.
For you FNGs, I have a little light reading for you. Do some research on the USAPA restraining order. See what a federal judge did. And don't let Isom's stature lead you to underestimating him.
12-29-2019, 09:09 AM
#39
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2011
Position: A320 Capt
Posts: 5,294
Originally Posted by seafeye
You lost your pension because of this very attitude.
12-29-2019, 09:18 AM
#40
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2011
Position: A320 Capt
Posts: 5,294
So wearing a lanyard and not answering/using your cellphone are the keys to success, but insulting and belittling the guys that have lived through this place doesn't matter. Got it.
Real men of genius. I've just moved my estimation of our ratification date out to about 2025.
Real men of genius. I've just moved my estimation of our ratification date out to about 2025.
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