January 2022’s Accelerated Negotiations
05-26-2022, 05:16 PM
#121
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2014
Posts: 1,302
Originally Posted by AAL24
I would argue the reason so few line pilots are engaged or give a sh#t anymore is because we have the weakest union reps in the industry. APA is perpetually scared of its own shadow. Our negotiators drop their lines just to pick up premium, even during intensive "super negotiations". Our guidance from the union emails always finishes with "unless your chief tells you to, then disregard everything in your contract." Fly it then grieve it is the APA way. Former negotiators now working as negotiators for the company. Reps crossing over to management. It's a company union run by forward leaners who are used to taking orders from mgt.
05-26-2022, 08:19 PM
#124
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2011
Position: Airbus button pusher
Posts: 2,448
Originally Posted by RhinoBallAuto
APA can't vote electronically in union elections because of federal labor law.
https://www.dol.gov/agencies/olms/co...voting-systems
Remember, APA has direct election of national officers, where ALPA represented carriers have the MEC vote for the national officers.
APA could vote electronically for other issues (like a strike vote, or a TA ratification)
https://www.dol.gov/agencies/olms/co...voting-systems
Remember, APA has direct election of national officers, where ALPA represented carriers have the MEC vote for the national officers.
APA could vote electronically for other issues (like a strike vote, or a TA ratification)
05-27-2022, 05:51 AM
#125
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2016
Posts: 271
In training yesterday was told plenty of applicants. The evidence is pilots want to get to AA because we are retiring so many and seniority will sky rocket. They told us 59% will retire in the next 5 years. Easy enough to do the math. I am sure many that come here think the crap contract will improve eventually. I have been hoping for that for many many years and it just does not get better.
The company is offering a 4% then 3% raise over a two year contract. They are not budging in negotiations. That was what they offered back in January and I think that was the offer when we started negotiations 2 years ago. The few things that have been agreed upon are good and not so good. $12000/mo LTD. less than the other airlines. Beats the $8000/mo we have now but not the $15000/mo Delta has or JB at $14000/mo.
A big part of our problem is our pilots too. We don’t have much unity. Not sure why. Maybe the multiple mergers of years past? Maybe lack of Pilot to Pilot interaction? I was in ops yesterday in the afternoon and I was the only pilot there. We have a chat board where in an ideal world you could get some good info or perhaps learn some stuff. Unfortunately it has become a political discussion site with some serious mud slinging going on. I am sure some people are getting fired over what has been posted on there. The result has caused other non Union sites to go to on Facebook. One is called “Below the line”. The problem with that is no one other than pilots hired after the merger are allowed on it. As a result a couple other groups were started. AArena was the next and that turned political too so moderators were pulling posts off so a no holds barred unmonitored page opened up. I don’t know the name. It’s all legal but does not help unity.
The only way that I can think of to explain the feelings I get here is complete disrespect for pilots. The feeling I get is that they hate us with a passion. It has been that way for a long time. There is a serious amount of envy/jealousy of the pilots. The pilots in senior management positions have not been regular line pilots for decades. Once you are in those positions you don’t leave. We had a VP of flight with 32 years at AA and had less than 3000 hours in those 32 years. That person was loathed and had no idea of the trials and tribulations of us at the bottom. Management pilots are the personnel that should be advocating for the “line swine” and it just doesn’t happen.
I know the grass is always greener but the level of frustration here is never ending. You can bid to a wide body and have a completely different perspective. If you are looking for a vibe of feeling appreciated don’t apply. You have to adjust to doing the best you can do and shrug off the nonsense. It will drive you nuts. If I lived in a base or want to live in a base we have I would still consider AA. If not then I wouldn’t come here. Just my opinion. I have been here a long time.
The company is offering a 4% then 3% raise over a two year contract. They are not budging in negotiations. That was what they offered back in January and I think that was the offer when we started negotiations 2 years ago. The few things that have been agreed upon are good and not so good. $12000/mo LTD. less than the other airlines. Beats the $8000/mo we have now but not the $15000/mo Delta has or JB at $14000/mo.
A big part of our problem is our pilots too. We don’t have much unity. Not sure why. Maybe the multiple mergers of years past? Maybe lack of Pilot to Pilot interaction? I was in ops yesterday in the afternoon and I was the only pilot there. We have a chat board where in an ideal world you could get some good info or perhaps learn some stuff. Unfortunately it has become a political discussion site with some serious mud slinging going on. I am sure some people are getting fired over what has been posted on there. The result has caused other non Union sites to go to on Facebook. One is called “Below the line”. The problem with that is no one other than pilots hired after the merger are allowed on it. As a result a couple other groups were started. AArena was the next and that turned political too so moderators were pulling posts off so a no holds barred unmonitored page opened up. I don’t know the name. It’s all legal but does not help unity.
The only way that I can think of to explain the feelings I get here is complete disrespect for pilots. The feeling I get is that they hate us with a passion. It has been that way for a long time. There is a serious amount of envy/jealousy of the pilots. The pilots in senior management positions have not been regular line pilots for decades. Once you are in those positions you don’t leave. We had a VP of flight with 32 years at AA and had less than 3000 hours in those 32 years. That person was loathed and had no idea of the trials and tribulations of us at the bottom. Management pilots are the personnel that should be advocating for the “line swine” and it just doesn’t happen.
I know the grass is always greener but the level of frustration here is never ending. You can bid to a wide body and have a completely different perspective. If you are looking for a vibe of feeling appreciated don’t apply. You have to adjust to doing the best you can do and shrug off the nonsense. It will drive you nuts. If I lived in a base or want to live in a base we have I would still consider AA. If not then I wouldn’t come here. Just my opinion. I have been here a long time.
05-27-2022, 06:30 AM
#126
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2018
Position: 757/767
Posts: 537
Originally Posted by Varks
In training yesterday was told plenty of applicants. The evidence is pilots want to get to AA because we are retiring so many and seniority will sky rocket. They told us 59% will retire in the next 5 years. Easy enough to do the math. I am sure many that come here think the crap contract will improve eventually. I have been hoping for that for many many years and it just does not get better.
The company is offering a 4% then 3% raise over a two year contract. They are not budging in negotiations. That was what they offered back in January and I think that was the offer when we started negotiations 2 years ago. The few things that have been agreed upon are good and not so good. $12000/mo LTD. less than the other airlines. Beats the $8000/mo we have now but not the $15000/mo Delta has or JB at $14000/mo.
A big part of our problem is our pilots too. We don’t have much unity. Not sure why. Maybe the multiple mergers of years past? Maybe lack of Pilot to Pilot interaction? I was in ops yesterday in the afternoon and I was the only pilot there. We have a chat board where in an ideal world you could get some good info or perhaps learn some stuff. Unfortunately it has become a political discussion site with some serious mud slinging going on. I am sure some people are getting fired over what has been posted on there. The result has caused other non Union sites to go to on Facebook. One is called “Below the line”. The problem with that is no one other than pilots hired after the merger are allowed on it. As a result a couple other groups were started. AArena was the next and that turned political too so moderators were pulling posts off so a no holds barred unmonitored page opened up. I don’t know the name. It’s all legal but does not help unity.
The only way that I can think of to explain the feelings I get here is complete disrespect for pilots. The feeling I get is that they hate us with a passion. It has been that way for a long time. There is a serious amount of envy/jealousy of the pilots. The pilots in senior management positions have not been regular line pilots for decades. Once you are in those positions you don’t leave. We had a VP of flight with 32 years at AA and had less than 3000 hours in those 32 years. That person was loathed and had no idea of the trials and tribulations of us at the bottom. Management pilots are the personnel that should be advocating for the “line swine” and it just doesn’t happen.
I know the grass is always greener but the level of frustration here is never ending. You can bid to a wide body and have a completely different perspective. If you are looking for a vibe of feeling appreciated don’t apply. You have to adjust to doing the best you can do and shrug off the nonsense. It will drive you nuts. If I lived in a base or want to live in a base we have I would still consider AA. If not then I wouldn’t come here. Just my opinion. I have been here a long time.
The company is offering a 4% then 3% raise over a two year contract. They are not budging in negotiations. That was what they offered back in January and I think that was the offer when we started negotiations 2 years ago. The few things that have been agreed upon are good and not so good. $12000/mo LTD. less than the other airlines. Beats the $8000/mo we have now but not the $15000/mo Delta has or JB at $14000/mo.
A big part of our problem is our pilots too. We don’t have much unity. Not sure why. Maybe the multiple mergers of years past? Maybe lack of Pilot to Pilot interaction? I was in ops yesterday in the afternoon and I was the only pilot there. We have a chat board where in an ideal world you could get some good info or perhaps learn some stuff. Unfortunately it has become a political discussion site with some serious mud slinging going on. I am sure some people are getting fired over what has been posted on there. The result has caused other non Union sites to go to on Facebook. One is called “Below the line”. The problem with that is no one other than pilots hired after the merger are allowed on it. As a result a couple other groups were started. AArena was the next and that turned political too so moderators were pulling posts off so a no holds barred unmonitored page opened up. I don’t know the name. It’s all legal but does not help unity.
The only way that I can think of to explain the feelings I get here is complete disrespect for pilots. The feeling I get is that they hate us with a passion. It has been that way for a long time. There is a serious amount of envy/jealousy of the pilots. The pilots in senior management positions have not been regular line pilots for decades. Once you are in those positions you don’t leave. We had a VP of flight with 32 years at AA and had less than 3000 hours in those 32 years. That person was loathed and had no idea of the trials and tribulations of us at the bottom. Management pilots are the personnel that should be advocating for the “line swine” and it just doesn’t happen.
I know the grass is always greener but the level of frustration here is never ending. You can bid to a wide body and have a completely different perspective. If you are looking for a vibe of feeling appreciated don’t apply. You have to adjust to doing the best you can do and shrug off the nonsense. It will drive you nuts. If I lived in a base or want to live in a base we have I would still consider AA. If not then I wouldn’t come here. Just my opinion. I have been here a long time.
05-27-2022, 06:58 AM
#127
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2015
Position: UNA
Posts: 4,456
Originally Posted by Varks
In training yesterday was told plenty of applicants. The evidence is pilots want to get to AA because we are retiring so many and seniority will sky rocket. They told us 59% will retire in the next 5 years. Easy enough to do the math. I am sure many that come here think the crap contract will improve eventually. I have been hoping for that for many many years and it just does not get better.
The company is offering a 4% then 3% raise over a two year contract. They are not budging in negotiations. That was what they offered back in January and I think that was the offer when we started negotiations 2 years ago. The few things that have been agreed upon are good and not so good. $12000/mo LTD. less than the other airlines. Beats the $8000/mo we have now but not the $15000/mo Delta has or JB at $14000/mo.
The company is offering a 4% then 3% raise over a two year contract. They are not budging in negotiations. That was what they offered back in January and I think that was the offer when we started negotiations 2 years ago. The few things that have been agreed upon are good and not so good. $12000/mo LTD. less than the other airlines. Beats the $8000/mo we have now but not the $15000/mo Delta has or JB at $14000/mo.
UA cap is 11k
i think JetBlue is 15k
05-27-2022, 12:18 PM
#129
Line Holder
Joined APC: Sep 2018
Posts: 43
Originally Posted by Varks
In training yesterday was told plenty of applicants. The evidence is pilots want to get to AA because we are retiring so many and seniority will sky rocket. They told us 59% will retire in the next 5 years. Easy enough to do the math. I am sure many that come here think the crap contract will improve eventually. I have been hoping for that for many many years and it just does not get better.
Filler
05-27-2022, 01:03 PM
#130
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2018
Position: 757/767
Posts: 537
Originally Posted by AllYourBaseAreB
AA is NOT retiring 59% in 5 years…. Not even close. Closer to 10 years for that amount
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