As of right now, no one that has been at AA for under 3 years has been awarded WB FO. It will come down once it "jumps the gap" of the year that AA didn't hire, but as of now, it hasn't jumped the gap. The most junior WB FO was hired in March 2020, and the award has an effective date of March 2024, so 4 years.

It is possible on the next award that it could go junior to this, but it is not a guarantee. There are many awards in which they go senior to the award before it. The pilots awarded 777 FO on the Sept 2023 award, for instance, have not had anyone junior to them awarded 777 FO in the subsequent 2 awards.

So, as of now, time to hold WB FO is just about 4 years and we will see what happens on the next award. The vacancy should open in late November of the first week of December. It *could* drop to 2 years at that point, but it is highly unlikely.

I heard nearly the entirety of our WB CA’s retire in the next 5-6 years. Add that to the WB FO’s who will also retire as well. I’m assuming with each vacancy the awards should trend more junior for everything.

I mean, due to our lack of widebodies it's always going to be like that isn't it? You won't make WB CA until you are in the upper 50s so we will perpetually have the entirety of WB CA's retire within 5-6 years, although there may be a year or two added to that in the future.

Been following the MIA drops lately. Any reason 737 slots are so heavy in Miami versus Airbus? For those younger wanting the Airbus in Miami not much luck ever other than completing a base exchange.

Bid the 737 if you want the best of MIA flying.

I should be able to hold WB captain at age 50 and there are a handful senior to me that are younger than me. I also know of guys just junior to me, like less the 100 numbers, that are 8-10 years younger than me so they will be able to hold it at age 40 or so. :eek:

there are plenty of 2012-14 hires that will hit WB CA seniority in their mid to late 40’s. As we get more 787s the upgrade time will drop even more for 2015-17 hires(assuming 777s dont get parked).

737 drops are heavy in general because younger new hires bid off of it after the seat lock and withholding period so there is a continual need to backfill the seat.

320 flying in DFW and MIA is desirable if you like the Latin terrain destinations. XLRs may eventually have augmented south of the equator trips from MIA.

Because of seat locks and withholding it is wise to bid equipment first and base trade. If you are young in your class though, you will probably be stuck on the 73.

What is considered young? I am 44 and I am really hoping to avoid 73s to MIA.

I was 41 and I was right in the middle :D

It’s all relative and you just don’t know who your “relatives” are until they come out of the woodwork first day of class!

Wide Body Captains;

With 777 and 787 combined...

Age 64 - 209
Age 63 - 245
Age 62 - 208
Age 61 - 130
Age 60 - 84
Total under 60 - 113

53 is the youngest WB CA

But as the 64 year olds turn 65, there are 62 year olds upgrading to take their place. So, it will stay like this for a while with the occasional "youngster" in his/her 50's getting an upgrade.

There’s a ton of older widebody FOs, too.

Not really. Only about 25% of WB FOs are 60 or older. The youngest WB FO is 29.

Only about 18% above 60, but only 90 wide body FOs 40 or younger, or about 3%.

they must all be in ord

I’d call that a ton considering we are talking FO’s.

Exactly. There is going to be a lot of movement on the widebody side (if people want it) over the next 5 years. Between CAs and FOs on the wide body retiring and also don’t forget there are still 20+ 787s on their way. However, I think a lot of people could end up choosing to be a Narrowbody CA instead. Yes schedules ect, but once you start factoring in the income with the new pay rates it’s very tempting to just go that route instead and make the money. Upgrade times could easily drop to 1 year for awhile going forward.

2023 class totals thus far
 

New here, nerded out a bit, thought I'd share. 35 class drops thus far this year, broken out.American Airlines FO Class Drops (Base & Type) 2023 Totals per BaseBaseTypeD or I CLT737I 2LGA737I 116MIA737I 308BOS737D 80LAX737D 4DCA737D 76LGA737D 281CLT320I 43DCA320I 65LAX320I 59MIA320I 186PHL320I 160PHX320I 31LGA320D 453 Class Totals:1862 737 Split865 320 Split997

15 November class drop please?

Try asking this next Friday...

I mean, I will. But it seems odd considering the class drop are released the Friday prior (example; today for the 15 November class).

Lga fo 737 i 1
mia fo 737 i 25
bos fo 737 d 1
dca fo 737 d 1
lga fo 737 d 7
clt fo 320 i 1
dca fo 320 i 1
lax fo 320 i 1
mia fo 320 i 1
phl fo 320 i 28
phx fo 320 i 1
lga fo 320 d 1

And how many 777s on their way out by then?

777s are scheduled to remain until at least 2030.

Sorry, my internal calendar must be off... I wasn't tracking that the next class starts on the 15th...

Yes, the last I heard all incoming 787s and 321 XLRs are intended as growth aircraft. That's why we're hiring 2000 plus pilots a year. If it was only to cover retirements we'd be less than half that number.

I realize class drops can be a moving target based on company needs but for someone looking for BOS how easy is the base exchange? Seems the number of BOS in class drops keeps dwindling so if not available in initial would it be a quick timeframe to switch into? Any idea if BOS tends to trend jr. for most new hires?

thanks!

BOS is a 737 only base, so if you can’t get BOS in initial, at least be sure to get 737 or it will be 2 years…

Looking at AA's data it looks like 1/3 of the BOS showed up in the last year. That can't continue unless they announce BIG plans for BOS. That might be why the BOS class drops are dwindling...the bodies are already in town. That door shutting can last a LONG time in BOS which is why many BOS guys have flown out of NYC over the years. BOS would stagnate and be senior while LGA was junior. The risk was bidding out and not being able to bid back into BOS as the few openings went senior. It's like the stock market "past performance isn't a guarantee of future performance" but if it happens again, like it has multiple times in the last 35 years, don't be surprised. Right now the only guarantee is retirements and you then hope that the overall manning remains stable which means openings are created by each retirement. Good luck.

737 midwest/east coast commuter bases
 

Seeing that a lot of new hire FO's have to commute initially before being able to hold their base of choice, I'm looking for some overall perspective on what qualities in a base other commuting 737 pilots have found "desirable".

Is seniority in base worth going to LGA? Does having a line mitigate the headache of covering JFK/EWR/LGA? How commutable in general are the NYC trips at the bottom end of the seniority list? Could one plan on a couple (3-4) hotels per month max? Or would crashpads be a better option?

Is DCA a better alternative to LGA if one wants to avoid NYC?

How about the bases serving single airports like BOS/CLT/DFW?
Being more senior bases, do pilots on reserve get used much in those bases? Do trips at those bases tend to be less commutable?

And as a general catch-all, do any bases stand out as a "DON'T COMMUTE HERE"?

Feel free to chime in with anything you've found useful in your experiences. Thanks!

Not really the thread for this question. Maybe a new thread?

Find out how many AA flights between your commuting city and the different crew bases? How many are AB's (2 jumpseats) vs 737 (1 jumpseat). How many commuters? Some city pairs are brutal like MIA-MCO. You might be better off doing PHL-MIA commute as it might be easier than MCO-MIA. For AA ATL, AUS and IAH are bigg commuter cities. ATL goes to DFW and MIA and it's been my limited observation that AUS and IAH goes to DFW.

Next consideration is how many airports does the commuting base cover? PHL? One. CLT? One. DCA, LGA, MIA, cover 3 airports each. Different fleets (320 vs 737) might cover all or only some of the cities. What do hotels charge? Miami in the winter? Good luck...it was often $200 out the door.

On reserve you might get, on average, the less desireable trips. If a good trip pops up people try to grab it and drop their less desireable trip that might not be bad but in general trades are done for 'better' trips. I wouldn't overthink it...if you're commuting it will only be for a couple months in today's hiring/retirement = movement era. You'll be on board and can research whatever *you* think is important once you have access to the lines/reserve days off guys at your seniority are holding in every base in every bid status. Eg. I showed a guy the last trips assigned on the 737 in LGA (about as low as you can go....). He looked at the trips "those are the worst?!?! I'd fly those any day!!" The entire bid status didn't care for trips that he'd gladly fly (used to fly for an Asian carrier) so for him actually seeing the actual monthly awards was eye opening.

I purposely bid reserve to actually get a shot at day trips and 2 days, which are difficult to hold for most people in most bases

same I bid reserve on purpose
to never fly as well. Probably about 400 hours a year I do.

●●●Thread Reset●●●
 

Next Drop --- See Below :D

I had thought about that. The intent wasn't to hijack the current thread, just trying to gather some info between class drops for new hires. We'll give it a shot.

They get very anal In the class drop threads about posts. After all they need room for the 13 "are the drops out yet" posts we see every Thursday and Friday.

Are the drops out yet?

yes

filler