those improvements would have to be worth 2 billion just to break even on taking this deal.

we will be negotiating the next contract three years after this vote if ratified. Whatever you think we get for a no vote will be a net loss for us and a gain for management.

But if that’s what makes you happy vote no, feel good about holding the line and take it right in the ass.

if anyone needs to know how we can lag so far behind everyone else they only need to look at the pilots here. We are dysfunctional and emotional. Our union represents us perfectly.

 

Keep in mind, we've got 1/3 more pilots on reserve to cover that single pilot (I've done a whopping 2 hours of block this month so far), an extra 16% 401k, 8% government taxes that the company pays on top of us paying them, medical costs that aren't insignificant ($25k+ for family coverage) plus the hundreds out on LTD, and how many block hours are we working a month? Sure, that 85-hour credit line starts off around 80 hours block, but at the end of the month with cancels and reroutes, we're at quite a bit less. Factor in premium and PR. Last year I worked with multiple FOs who credited over 170 hours a month over the summer. Now add on sick calls, vacation, etc and the costs to cover a single block hour at the end up the month hit ~200% of base pay.

For some real numbers. Last year my total comp (block pay, per diem, 401k contributions, vacation) was $425k, plus $8k cost to company in medical, plus another $30k in taxes the company paid on my behalf. I flew 681 hours. Comes out to $680/hr. My actual payrate was $270, or 250% of my base pay.

 

I disagree. A single pilot aircraft might as well be autonomous.

In the talks I've had with FAA folks, they believe it will go full autonomous before being completely single pilot.

Single pilot cruise? Possibly first. But that still adheres to the Delta contract.

This is what UPS and FedEx will be ordering if it comes to fruition:
Vehicles - Natilus

 

Don’t care about your back pay. Every one of my sound offs and suggestions were ignored by the union and the negotiating committee. Waiting 18 months for my pay date to be aligned with my hire date was the final straw. Tell me why I should vote yes? Fact, not having a competitive contract hurts American when they need to hire 2000 a year. Don’t fall for their bluff so easily.

 

no doubt…..

 

You don’t care about him yet he should care about you. Got it.

 

Oof, Mr Strawman strikes again!

 

If you vote no, you will lose the 20% raise you've been getting since May 2023 and it will take a year or more to finish arbitration, for which not only is aligning the pay to hire date in question but also the implementation schedule which would be decided by an arbitrator.

So you vote no. We go to arbitration, and it gets hammered out in 12 months. In those 12 months, you've lost:
.

• 20% increase in current pay from May 2023 to August 2024 (16 months)
• Assuming blended first/second year pay as nb FO, this amounts to about $38,000 in lost income (it's actually a little more, because of our raise in 2024)
• any signing bonuses thrown in by company for goodwill (these expire if not signed by August 7th IIRC)
• subtract the $5k you'd gain if aligned immediately and you're left with $33k, but that doesn't include the retro pay that you have coming your way. Guessing it's at least a wash. Back to $38k in arrears

Now, 12 months comes around and arbitrator implements the same pay scale as decided but decides to implement the alignment immediately. This means you've gained approximately 83 hrs x 2 months or $5,000 (second year pay at this point).

So congrats, you've just showed the company how smart you are. You may want to ask some US Airways guys about how well arbitration actually works.

We are hiring just fine with our current contract, which is frankly none of our concern. If Spirit, Frontier, Allegiant, Sun Country etc can hire, AA will have no problem hiring especially with the new contract.

Nobody really cares what you think, you offer nothing of value and write with grammar similar to a 15 year old. Probably why they ignored you. If you really are at AA, it's time to gain some maturity and act like an adult when addressing peers. BTW I'm a millennial so GTFO with the boomer retort.

 

You don’t loose anything voting no, the deal that passes later governs what was lost.

October deal was voted down and billions were lost, except here we are with another deal.

You can only really argue outside forces will cost you, no possible way you can argue the company is weak and agreeable right now, but will later be strong and resistant on their own.

They put up enough money for a vote, but it doesn’t mean there is nothing left, it means they aren’t giving anymore until they see the vote.

The union and company both guess on what can pass there is no impasse with membership, no union can advance though section 6 without a failed membership vote.

 

This is going to pass as things stand now. The real debate/issues will start when United comes out with a AIP right before our vote.