If AA pilots thought about it, they'd realize they're about to freeload off of other pilot groups' efforts and success...again...by failing to pattern bargain. "Copy and paste" is so much easier.

Better to just call it "non sense" and change the subject, right?

Yeah the amazing efforts when UAL put forth the Tumi TA, only to be saved by AA management of all people. Get real dummy. And whens the JS war starting? I’m waiting on your que.

okay, I’ve got to jump in on this.

UAL pilots were ****ed well before AA management stepped in to “save us.” Tumi was going to fail, AA management just pushed it to a 94% failure.

I think it’s inevitable. Just a matter of time.

I'm pretty impressed with the UAL folks. They did almost a complete recycle in 4-5 months, recalled how many reps, and after a burble or two, hit the ground running. I think that speaks pretty well of the internal ALPA processes.

And here he goes again.


UPA23 - Page 6
NEW - Long sit Add Pay Lineholder no longer involuntarily assigned FSB after loss of flying

UPA23 - Page 7
NEW - 3 hours of Add Pay for Loss of flying when Pilot agrees to sit Voluntary Field Standby (Pilot must concur first)

UPA23 - Page 13
NEW - No mandatory Field Standby assignments; Voluntary Field Standby pays 3 hours of Add Pay

UPA23 - Page 15
First day of reserve pre-10am incentives •Pilot who picks up SC or FSB entitled to 1 hour of Add Pay

UPA23 - Page 44
NEW - Lineholder can no longer involuntarily assigned FSB after loss of flying


It appears FSB is going amazingly well. But you have already been explained this what, ten times now?

And before you pretend that your reference was solely directed at their present contract, allow me put it in your own words:

Rest assured, I’m keeping up.

He is alluding to the near lack of existence of trip trading at AA, and our failure to secure provisions to fix it.

His response was given in reaction to your sarcastic remark about United not eliminating their global reserve system.

Little worm out. 🐛

Again stupid, your little worm like selective comprehension has got you babbling about much of nothing. Their global reserve and current FSB are not the same thing. Bye bye you pathetic a little worm.

The predicament with the internet is that it tends to leave a trace.

Meep meep. 🐛

Yep that’s how awful their current contract is. They currently have global reserve and FSB. They’re making one of those voluntary when the new contract passes. Right now they’re still living with both, as we are with the trip trading system.

You’re steadily moving from the 🐛 category to 🐈

Except they are fixing their "awful" (FSB). We aren’t fixing ours (trip trading, or lack thereof).

It was the point from the outset, but you feign to not understand when caught.


Such grandiosity, calling me a 🐈 while hiding behind the veil of an anonymous message board. Truly pathetic.

The trip trading system is meant to get addressed by creating less 4+5 day trips. Also the latest email from APA mentions TTS directly.

And you’re real brave, calling me a management monkey, tough guy. Let’s remember who started the name calling behind the veil of a message board.

Oh my god, guys this back and forth name calling and slinging of insults needs to stop. UA/DL guys and gals, can you not just be happy for a moment with what you’ve accomplished in negotiating instead of throwing out insults at the AA pilot group for not triggering a snap up? It reeks of entitlement and is not kind, especially when there’s not much the majority of our group can do about it. Right now we have APA. Not much we can do to change that at the moment. We have card drives going for ALPA but it’s going to take a lot of time and effort to move that needle. In my opinion, we have higher priorities than triggering a snap up for everyone else, because no one at DL or UA has to deal with our lagging QOL work rules, we do. I know we’d all love to say we snapped up pay for the industry but we’re already 3rd place in legacy contracts. We just replaced our NC chair, so let’s just wait and see what happens. I’m hoping to see major improvements in all facets of the TA, but even if we can’t accomplish that, does it really make you feel better to **** on us when we’re already down? I mean, come on.

At least the Tumi TA was overwhelmingly voted down. I would not be the least bit surprised if this gets voted in.

Are you equating the Tumi TA to what we have on the table at the moment? Sounds like you’re saying this 9 billion plus dollar deal and the Tumi are similar, and therefore should get a similar reception when voting. You think the two are in the same hemisphere?

from the sounds of it there will be no vote at all

Ta canceled

Now that is disgusting. Withhold a TA that will surely overwhelmingly pass so the 10% crybabies can feel tough. If Isom's deal was so bad let it get voted down.

APA to USAPA-"Hold my beer."

or….. you know…. Actually keep negotiating since he was the one that reopened the deal and added sweeteners… not us

Are you suggesting it won't pass as is? There is risk in negotiating further and everyone that would vote yes understands that further negotiating COULD result in a better contract. It is a valid position to keep negotiating, it all comes down to your appetite for risk (or your understanding of macroeconomics).

We could keep negotiating until the very last person is satisfied, but the system is set up to only negotiate until 50%+1 are satisfied. There is a place in our career field for those who want to do solo negotiating and that is the top of the corporate pilot world. You can be a free agent and fly for Taylor Swift or some king in the middle east and negotiate your own ludicrous contract if you are such a bad-ass pilot. It is disgusting to withhold a TA from the pilot group that would overwhelmingly be approved so you can get some stupid addition so you feel cool like a Delta pilot.

The "system" is not set up for 50%+1. That is a mgmt goal and should not be our benchmark.

What is the risk in negotiating further? Your money is always going to be there. The bar has been set in that regard.

We will now trail in most other sections that aren't LTD. Reserve, where we carry a higher percentage than every other carrier about 1/3 of the entire group, is about to take a nose dive with the new assignment system paired with ECS and codified ability to be reassigned into a day off. Our current reserve system is the best out there. Why are we moving backwards?

The board is protecting you from yourself at this point. Your desired payday will come. It might even come this week. Relax and let the process play out.

Go back to you management cubicle

They are withholding it due to their own pride and ego, not because they are worried about 10% of pilots. Robert stole their thunder and hurt their feelings.

But the deal is fine because Roberts sweeteners are the fallback position, his only option is too say it’s a standing offer and the pay is already captured.

His only position can be that if they wanna bark up the tree for 3 more months until they’re fatigued that’s up to them. He can’t afford to try and escalate the urgency of voting this in now, or play hardball by reneging on what he already posted a video of.

He has to let the union take free shots because he already rushed out and offered back pay to Jan 1, could be a tactical miss on his part because that could have been his closer and would have left a small about of urgency to close on a deal. He may give them something to claim a W and close now.

This is what happens when you don’t negotiate QOL gains and do negotiate back pay, we are entering a closed loop where it cost nothing to stay in it and get nothing to exit.

Is it?

Some think the TA, absent the sweeteners, has to go out for a vote tomorrow.

we aren’t ALPA. Our board can pull the vote. (Supposedly)

Not according to one very smart, connected pilot I consulted. Shouldn't that be 100% clear today?

​​​​

The question has been asked, the leadership is strangely quiet.

At this point all the "connected" pilots have an agenda and cannot be trusted.

This.

It’s interesting how the different camps seem to align along generational lines/time remaining before retirement.

But but but the junior guys have 30 years to fix their QOL. We need to get this done now so I can get paid! Oh btw, how’s age 67 going?

Sigh… I’ve even heard that exact comment.

Paint with a broad brush much? Not this guy.

I have asked my reps and officers-no answer.

What's the Swahilian phrase for "I was right"?

so many scared spinless pilots in this group. You are a disgrace

I stand by what I said. The shenanigan level right now is through the roof.

Okay. Did you know that the BOD is meeting at 13:00 central to discuss the question.

I will agree that the shenanigan level is through the roof, but I'm thinking that it's not from who you think it is.

I'm not sure, but you might want to hang on. I've heard that Swahili crow is tough to swallow.

I think it’s from both sides through many proxies.

Couldn't care less if the TA will be voted on or not. I was right about the TA being a turd all along. That is now a proven fact and scared pilots like you still want it to pass as is. Shame