AMR only paid $6.5 mil to their employee pens
01-20-2012, 11:01 AM
#11
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Joined APC: Aug 2008
Position: A-320 Capt
Posts: 270
Originally Posted by Tsuda
US says American Airlines underpaid on pensions
US says American Airlines underpaid on pensions.
THE ASSOCIATED PRESS
Updated: 3:56*p.m.*Thursday,*Jan.*19,*2012
Published: 3:26*p.m.*Thursday,*Jan.*19,*2012
DALLAS — American Airlines contributed only $6.5 million of the $100 million that it was supposed to pay into employee pension plans this week.
The underpayment raised tensions between the company, which filed for bankruptcy protection in November, and federal pension-protection officials.
"This is a disturbing development, as the airline has more than $4 billion in cash," said J. Jioni Palmer, a spokesman for the Pension Benefit Guaranty Corp., which insures certain types of retirement plans. "American's actions hurt the financial health of the pension plans, and undermine the retirement security of American's workers and retirees."
American Airlines spokesman Sean Collins said, "The company has determined this is the appropriate course of action for the quarterly contribution amount due by Jan. 15, 2012. This action allows the company to preserve cash."
American and parent AMR Corp. filed for bankruptcy protection Nov. 29 after losing $11 billion since 2001. The company hopes to reduce debt and labor costs while it reorganizes.
Company executives and lawyers have raised the possibility that American could terminate its pension plans, under which retirees get fixed monthly payments based on their earnings and years of service. Such "defined-benefit" plans are common in the airline industry but differ from the retirement accounts such as 401(k) plans that are provided by many other U.S. employers.
PBGC director Joshua Gotbaum has publicly criticized American for even suggesting that it might terminate pension plans. Gotbaum's agency would take over the airline's obligations.
The PBGC ran a $26 billion deficit last year, the largest in its history, as the recession and weak recovery caused more companies to eliminate pension plans. Gotbaum has said that taxpayers might have to bail out the agency, if Congress doesn't raise insurance premiums on private companies with pension plans.
___
January 19, 2012 04:56 PM EST
Copyright 2012, The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.
US says American Airlines underpaid on pensions.
THE ASSOCIATED PRESS
Updated: 3:56*p.m.*Thursday,*Jan.*19,*2012
Published: 3:26*p.m.*Thursday,*Jan.*19,*2012
DALLAS — American Airlines contributed only $6.5 million of the $100 million that it was supposed to pay into employee pension plans this week.
The underpayment raised tensions between the company, which filed for bankruptcy protection in November, and federal pension-protection officials.
"This is a disturbing development, as the airline has more than $4 billion in cash," said J. Jioni Palmer, a spokesman for the Pension Benefit Guaranty Corp., which insures certain types of retirement plans. "American's actions hurt the financial health of the pension plans, and undermine the retirement security of American's workers and retirees."
American Airlines spokesman Sean Collins said, "The company has determined this is the appropriate course of action for the quarterly contribution amount due by Jan. 15, 2012. This action allows the company to preserve cash."
American and parent AMR Corp. filed for bankruptcy protection Nov. 29 after losing $11 billion since 2001. The company hopes to reduce debt and labor costs while it reorganizes.
Company executives and lawyers have raised the possibility that American could terminate its pension plans, under which retirees get fixed monthly payments based on their earnings and years of service. Such "defined-benefit" plans are common in the airline industry but differ from the retirement accounts such as 401(k) plans that are provided by many other U.S. employers.
PBGC director Joshua Gotbaum has publicly criticized American for even suggesting that it might terminate pension plans. Gotbaum's agency would take over the airline's obligations.
The PBGC ran a $26 billion deficit last year, the largest in its history, as the recession and weak recovery caused more companies to eliminate pension plans. Gotbaum has said that taxpayers might have to bail out the agency, if Congress doesn't raise insurance premiums on private companies with pension plans.
___
January 19, 2012 04:56 PM EST
Copyright 2012, The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.
There wasn't a lot of taxpayer sympathy for airline pilots' loss of pensions then, or now.
Mine, as it stands, would pay me about 18% of what it was originally designed to pay, because pilots' A plans were typically designed to pay a large pension, close to what we were making at retirement. Not without cost; we traditionally traded contract items for large pensions. The PBGC has a maximum payout amount, and it was a fraction of what my pension was worth. It goes up every year a little, but still is a shadow of it's former self.
I don't make any assumptions that I'll ever see a nickel of money from the PBGC. I plan accordingly. I'd say I have a better chance of getting Social Security bennies than PBGC money, and them ain't good odds, either.
TW
01-20-2012, 11:08 AM
#12
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Joined APC: May 2011
Posts: 38
Originally Posted by throttleweenie
There wasn't a lot of taxpayer sympathy for airline pilots' loss of pensions then, or now.
Mine, as it stands, would pay me about 18% of what it was originally designed to pay...
TW
Said the TSA employee on the employee bus going to the parking lot last week, regarding this exact issue of what AA pilots are facing.
01-31-2012, 11:25 PM
#14
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Joined APC: Jan 2008
Position: 747
Posts: 731
02-01-2012, 12:03 AM
#15
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Joined APC: Sep 2007
Posts: 39
(Reuters) - The Pension Benefit Guaranty Corp, which has responsibility for insuring certain benefits under private defined benefit pension plans, said on Tuesday it believes American Airlines will seek to terminate employee pensions in bankruptcy.
The agency said it filed a $92 million lien against American parent AMR Corp (Other OTC:AAMRQ.PK - News) for the balance of unpaid pension plan contributions. It added that the lien was applied to AMR assets outside the United States, mainly in Latin America.
American filed for Chapter 11 protection in late November, citing uncompetitive labor costs. The carrier declined to comment on the PBGC statement.
American's unions, meanwhile, were bracing for meetings with airline managers this week that may provide clarity on the cost savings the carrier hopes to win from labor.
"We believe that tomorrow they will outline the size of the cuts at American," said Jamie Horwitz, spokesman for the Transport Workers Union.
He said he did not know when the workers of American Eagle, AMR's regional carrier, would learn the labor cost savings targets for that airline.
PBGC continues to press AMR for information about pensions. The agency said it is not convinced from the data it has received or from the airline's cash on hand that plan terminations are necessary for the airline to reorganize.
It is not uncommon for U.S. pension insurers to file liens in bankruptcy cases. Collecting on liens may need bankruptcy court approval.
Liens have been filed on behalf of four pension plans - against aircraft, real estate, and other assets.
The PBGC is an unsecured creditor in the American bankruptcy.
American has not said whether it will terminate pensions covering 130,000 workers and retirees to save money.
The PBGC estimates that American's pension shortfall - the difference between the assets of its plans and promised benefits - is $10 billion. If those plans were terminated today, the agency said it could not make up the entire amount of underfunding.
American paid $6 million in pension contributions on January 15 out of just under $100 million owed for the fourth quarter. The next contribution is due April 15.
"We want American Airlines to reorganize successfully and succeed as a business. We would like it to succeed as a business without killing its employee pension plans," PBGC Director Josh Gotbaum said.
The agency said it filed a $92 million lien against American parent AMR Corp (Other OTC:AAMRQ.PK - News) for the balance of unpaid pension plan contributions. It added that the lien was applied to AMR assets outside the United States, mainly in Latin America.
American filed for Chapter 11 protection in late November, citing uncompetitive labor costs. The carrier declined to comment on the PBGC statement.
American's unions, meanwhile, were bracing for meetings with airline managers this week that may provide clarity on the cost savings the carrier hopes to win from labor.
"We believe that tomorrow they will outline the size of the cuts at American," said Jamie Horwitz, spokesman for the Transport Workers Union.
He said he did not know when the workers of American Eagle, AMR's regional carrier, would learn the labor cost savings targets for that airline.
PBGC continues to press AMR for information about pensions. The agency said it is not convinced from the data it has received or from the airline's cash on hand that plan terminations are necessary for the airline to reorganize.
It is not uncommon for U.S. pension insurers to file liens in bankruptcy cases. Collecting on liens may need bankruptcy court approval.
Liens have been filed on behalf of four pension plans - against aircraft, real estate, and other assets.
The PBGC is an unsecured creditor in the American bankruptcy.
American has not said whether it will terminate pensions covering 130,000 workers and retirees to save money.
The PBGC estimates that American's pension shortfall - the difference between the assets of its plans and promised benefits - is $10 billion. If those plans were terminated today, the agency said it could not make up the entire amount of underfunding.
American paid $6 million in pension contributions on January 15 out of just under $100 million owed for the fourth quarter. The next contribution is due April 15.
"We want American Airlines to reorganize successfully and succeed as a business. We would like it to succeed as a business without killing its employee pension plans," PBGC Director Josh Gotbaum said.
02-01-2012, 02:54 AM
#18
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Joined APC: Sep 2005
Posts: 166
Originally Posted by throttleweenie
The PBGC was only $16B in debt when United dumped my pension on them in 2004. I went to a PBGC roadshow shortly after, and at the end of the roadshow, I asked the guy who at the time was the #2 guy there what the possibility I'd ever see any money, he said that unless Congress steps in, probably only a slim chance.
There wasn't a lot of taxpayer sympathy for airline pilots' loss of pensions then, or now.
Mine, as it stands, would pay me about 18% of what it was originally designed to pay, because pilots' A plans were typically designed to pay a large pension, close to what we were making at retirement. Not without cost; we traditionally traded contract items for large pensions. The PBGC has a maximum payout amount, and it was a fraction of what my pension was worth. It goes up every year a little, but still is a shadow of it's former self.
I don't make any assumptions that I'll ever see a nickel of money from the PBGC. I plan accordingly. I'd say I have a better chance of getting Social Security bennies than PBGC money, and them ain't good odds, either.
TW
There wasn't a lot of taxpayer sympathy for airline pilots' loss of pensions then, or now.
Mine, as it stands, would pay me about 18% of what it was originally designed to pay, because pilots' A plans were typically designed to pay a large pension, close to what we were making at retirement. Not without cost; we traditionally traded contract items for large pensions. The PBGC has a maximum payout amount, and it was a fraction of what my pension was worth. It goes up every year a little, but still is a shadow of it's former self.
I don't make any assumptions that I'll ever see a nickel of money from the PBGC. I plan accordingly. I'd say I have a better chance of getting Social Security bennies than PBGC money, and them ain't good odds, either.
TW
"Band of Brothers", my arse.
02-03-2012, 10:36 PM
#19
New Hire
Joined APC: Aug 2008
Posts: 9
Quite the conundrum
So AA has enlisted the services of Bain capital at 14 million a month to help the screw the pilots out of their pensions. Hummmm..... Where have I heard of Bain Capital??? Oh yes it's from the Corporations are people guy. Might want to remember that this Nov.
Might check out
The Last Word - Rewriting American Airlines' bankruptcy
Might check out
The Last Word - Rewriting American Airlines' bankruptcy
02-04-2012, 01:10 AM
#20
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2008
Position: 747
Posts: 731
Originally Posted by Mowgli
So AA has enlisted the services of Bain capital at 14 million a month to help the screw the pilots out of their pensions. Hummmm..... Where have I heard of Bain Capital??? Oh yes it's from the Corporations are people guy. Might want to remember that this Nov.
Might check out
The Last Word - Rewriting American Airlines' bankruptcy
Might check out
The Last Word - Rewriting American Airlines' bankruptcy
Yep corporations are people ... we as pilots have to stop shooting ourselves in the foot .. don't vote for the party that hates unions ... please.
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