AMR to APA term sheet proposal
02-05-2012, 05:50 AM
#102
Banned
Joined APC: Jun 2008
Position: A320 Cap
Posts: 2,282
Originally Posted by NERD
Bump and weenie,
Not dumb, just not as easily threatened. Do you not think Steenland and his merry band of thieves did not threaten the same thing to us? Yes, we as a group voted yes for the POS contract, but I did not. I can look myself in the mirror. Can you?
Not dumb, just not as easily threatened. Do you not think Steenland and his merry band of thieves did not threaten the same thing to us? Yes, we as a group voted yes for the POS contract, but I did not. I can look myself in the mirror. Can you?
02-05-2012, 06:43 AM
#103
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2009
Posts: 1,568
Correct me if I'm wrong, but Ual scope allows UNLIMITED 70 seat or less. The Cal scope does not allow anything over 50. Which will you end up with is the question. My hope is the Cal, my guess is Ual's. So, while our scope sucks it is no where near as bad as yours. Recapture of the 70-76 seaters ain't gonna happen. Hard limit is the only hope. What are you going to do? My guess is roll over and accept the UAL scope to get the rest of your contract up to our's. Btw, I want luv's scope.
Originally Posted by gettinbumped
Well, your scope is the worst in the industry, so...... Perhaps you should focus your efforts on your own upcoming contract. What are you doing to recapture Scope?
02-05-2012, 08:04 AM
#104
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2005
Position: Retired 121 pilot
Posts: 1,032
Originally Posted by Carl Spackler
I don't think that will be the case this time. Our industry is changing, and experienced wide body captains are in high demand with most foreign direct entry captains starting at around 250,000/yr. If you're in your late forties or early fifties, 20 years of seniority is meaningless if you're going to be making horrible money with horrible work rules. Not to mention living under the sword of no scope for your last 10 to 15 years. Most people will be much further ahead financially to go the foreign route.
Carl
Carl
Not being critical, just don't know and curious.
02-05-2012, 08:07 AM
#105
Banned
Joined APC: Jun 2008
Position: A320 Cap
Posts: 2,282
Originally Posted by NERD
Correct me if I'm wrong, but Ual scope allows UNLIMITED 70 seat or less. The Cal scope does not allow anything over 50. Which will you end up with is the question. My hope is the Cal, my guess is Ual's. So, while our scope sucks it is no where near as bad as yours. Recapture of the 70-76 seaters ain't gonna happen. Hard limit is the only hope. What are you going to do? My guess is roll over and accept the UAL scope to get the rest of your contract up to our's. Btw, I want luv's scope.
****ing match aside, the point is that UAL was going to get Scope relief in Ch11 one way or another. You can blame us for voting it in, but it was going to happen. The 1113c the company wanted was WAY worse than what we got, and the judge was rubber stamping everything UAL asked for. Much of the 70 seat give was in a side letter orchestrated by our MC at the time. The only vote I got on THAT was a recall of the MC vote, which I voted for in Council 11.
Out of curiosity, how many 50+ seat jets does your scope allow? How many 70+?
Pay Schmay. Nothing in the next contract is as important as Scope.
02-05-2012, 08:31 AM
#106
Back on TDY
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: 747-400 Captain
Posts: 12,487
Originally Posted by fireman0174
It's my understanding that most of the foreign positions are for defined contract period, i.e. 1-2 years. If true, then what sort of scope, security, working condition stability and pension does one have working for a foreign direct entry position?
Not being critical, just don't know and curious.
Not being critical, just don't know and curious.
It's a simple question of what you get paid for the days you work. If I had 10 to 15 years left and was looking at below USAir pay rates and a gutted scope, a foreign contract would be a no brainer. At the end of the contract, I would be shopping around for a better one and use that as leverage against the current contract to either match it or lose me.
Carl
02-05-2012, 09:19 AM
#108
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2005
Position: Retired 121 pilot
Posts: 1,032
Originally Posted by Carl Spackler
Most of the contracts now are 3-5 years with automatic extensions and bonuses for you to extend. And with regard to China/Hong Kong and the Middle East, they are almost panic stricken with how short they will be in the future. With these nations, it all has to do with experience and qualifications. The airlines would be perfectly willing to put anybody in one of the seats, but the insurance underwriters won't let them. I don't see insurance underwriters changing those experience requirements for captains anytime soon.
It's a simple question of what you get paid for the days you work. If I had 10 to 15 years left and was looking at below USAir pay rates and a gutted scope, a foreign contract would be a no brainer. At the end of the contract, I would be shopping around for a better one and use that as leverage against the current contract to either match it or lose me.
Carl
It's a simple question of what you get paid for the days you work. If I had 10 to 15 years left and was looking at below USAir pay rates and a gutted scope, a foreign contract would be a no brainer. At the end of the contract, I would be shopping around for a better one and use that as leverage against the current contract to either match it or lose me.
Carl
When I was about 8 years old, dad voluntarily transferred for duty in Paris, France. We were there a total of four years. While I missed some of the American experiences as a child (8-12), to this day I have great memories, so the experience for a family, IMO, can be good.
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