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Originally Posted by Night Hawk 6
(Post 1300016)
If this is correct, and for the sake of argument we will assume it is so, why haven't the associations acted to get out of the RLA or at least have it amended? People act like this law, written for the railroads in the late 1920's, is written in stone, or sent down from the Lord above, well it is not. All laws are amendable or can be abolished. Remember Prohibition? Unfortunately the RLA gives the associations’ credence and therefore justifies their current organization and therefore power in the profession. It has been to long since the associations put the welfare of the profession ahead of their own struggle for power and their very existence. Even a few simple amendments would help to level the playing field but when asked if ALPA was working to amend or abolish the RLA an ALPA official said” It isn’t even on our radar.”
The idea of an equal pay system, therefore equal labor costs across the industry, has been well received by airline managers at some of the leading legacy carriers. Just think of the savings when you no longer have to try to beat your competitor in labor costs plus if done as projected the contract could almost be perpetual, benefiting management and labor. It is time to think out of the box folks. Is the next generation so absorbed in Ipads and Facebook that they will let this once proud and profitable profession sink even further into the abyss? I asked this very question of one of the ALPA people who works directly with congress. He said they could not even get anyone to even introduce a bill to amend the act let alone get it out of committee and to the floor for a vote. No politician wants to be know as the guy who gave those damn unions all that power leading to a national strike. |
Originally Posted by sailingfun
(Post 1300939)
The RLA is not going anywhere. As I pointed out in another post i made here there was a recent union attempt to move Fedex out from under the RLA. It was crushed. Airline managements have fought any attempts at changing or amending it tooth and nail. There have been attempts. There are always feelers out trying to gauge support in Congress. Getting both houses to amend the law and the president to sign it so airline pilots can enjoy higher wages is not easy. It may never happen. Congress wants lower fares and in general is anti union, even the democrats. The talk pro union for votes but they don't walk the walk.
I asked this very question of one of the ALPA people who works directly with congress. He said they could not even get anyone to even introduce a bill to amend the act let alone get it out of committee and to the floor for a vote. No politician wants to be know as the guy who gave those damn unions all that power leading to a national strike. |
Interesting thoughts. First of all, I agree with you about the RLA. But then... if you have 7500 individual contractors, how could you call someone going to work a scab? For example, a pilot that bid a schedule and flew said schedule would nolt be taking anyone's flying... There would be no collective bargaining agent, therefore no one to call for a strike. I would think the concept of a "scab" would be rendered null and void at that point because mob rule doesn't translate well to a legitimate job action. FWIW.... It creates some very sticky legal issues, I'm thinking. Who does the company negotiate with? Can someone be sanctioned for creating the "strike manual" prior to APA dissolution? Other oddities too. Scabs - Technically not scabs, but we know what pilot memory is like w/regards to those who cross a line, and it is a line. If/when the company caves, dust off the APA bylaws, re-form under a new name. I understand it's a long shot and won't happen, but I see no other way to withhold services, and without that, we are twisting in the wind. |
I hate to say it but I think that if there was no union and enough pilots walked out, the company would just sell off the pieces and top management would shrug and move on to the next throne to sit upon. It just happened at Hostess. It just doesn't seem like TPTB have any incentive to actually see companies succeed any more. Or at least there is no disincentive for them not to fail.
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Originally Posted by AFPW
(Post 1302203)
I hate to say it but I think that if there was no union and enough pilots walked out, the company would just sell off the pieces and top management would shrug and move on to the next throne to sit upon. It just happened at Hostess. It just doesn't seem like TPTB have any incentive to actually see companies succeed any more. Or at least there is no disincentive for them not to fail.
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Well if you were to read the "rest of the story" you will see that the management at Hostess has done nothing to alter the company's downward spirial except ask the workers for concessions, which they gave in 2004, to "save" the company. Sound familiar? The current management also were found guilty of jacking up their compensation just prior to entering BK. Now management has gone to their BK judge asking for an additional 1.8 million in additional compensation to "retain management personel" as they dismantle the company. BK is a stacked deck against the workers while the management crooks are ignored as the public is presented with the drumbeat of the uninformed media about those greedy union workers. So who do you respect more, the workers who finally said "take this job and shove it" or management that demands that they be at the front of the line for the spoils of their own mis-managed company?
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Originally Posted by Night Hawk 6
(Post 1302288)
Well if you were to read the "rest of the story" you will see that the management at Hostess has done nothing to alter the company's downward spirial except ask the workers for concessions, which they gave in 2004, to "save" the company. Sound familiar? The current management also were found guilty of jacking up their compensation just prior to entering BK. Now management has gone to their BK judge asking for an additional 1.8 million in additional compensation to "retain management personel" as they dismantle the company. BK is a stacked deck against the workers while the management crooks are ignored as the public is presented with the drumbeat of the uninformed media about those greedy union workers. So who do you respect more, the workers who finally said "take this job and shove it" or management that demands that they be at the front of the line for the spoils of their own mis-managed company?
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AA folks forgive my ignorance since I have not followed your goings on too closely, but I did have a couple questions:
1. My understanding is that your next vote goes down on D-day, Dec 7. Right? 2. Is the note/claim considered pie in the sky by many/most pilots? 3. Is there a considerable downside beside the claim/note loss for the pilots if you vote this down? 4. I've heard one of your line 777 captains came up with an "acceptable" TA plan that looks somewhat DAL/UCal averaged - does this have traction? 5. Do you have "faith" in your management team going forward or do you expect if your TA passes, a hunk of AA domestically will be outsourced? 6. Why wouldn't your Mgmt agree to whatever you wanted simply for the goal of exiting Bankruptcy, getting their bonuses and flipping the bird to AA? Are they really soooo shallow that it is just a johnson measuring contest? |
Originally Posted by scambo1
(Post 1302553)
aa folks forgive my ignorance since i have not followed your goings on too closely, but i did have a couple questions:
1. My understanding is that your next vote goes down on d-day, dec 7. Right? Yes 2. Is the note/claim considered pie in the sky by many/most pilots? I can only speak for myself i believe it does have value but this is a 6 year contract withheinous sub isc items especially sick leave 3. Is there a considerable downside beside the claim/note loss for the pilots if you vote this down? The 1113 sheet will be fully implemented 4. I've heard one of your line 777 captains came up with an "acceptable" ta plan that looks somewhat dal/ucal averaged - does this have traction? Not familiar 5. Do you have "faith" in your management team going forward or do you expect if your ta passes, a hunk of aa domestically will be outsourced? No i voted no because of scope and sick leave issue 6. Why wouldn't your mgmt agree to whatever you wanted simply for the goal of exiting bankruptcy, getting their bonuses and flipping the bird to aa? Are they really soooo shallow that it is just a johnson measuring contest? this lbfo2 has pay of 4% then 2% then 2% but when you take away night pay and int'l ovrd $6 hr ca and $4 hr fo it's no raise. I voted no i believe they need very badly a contract to exit bk for the ipo because the union is still playing this i've got a secret we can't tell you because of the individual confidentiality agreements and the nda i am very worried they will spin off eagle and grow that exponentially |
Pay -
4% DOS 2% 12 months after DOS 2% 24 months 17-24% 36 months (17% if US still exists. 24% if US is merged) 2% 48 months 2% 60 months |
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