An important video for AMR/LCC pilots
 

I'd like to tell him where to put... oh nevermind. Can I be the CEO now? :(

Excellent, Robert Crandall understands what the real issue is. He says the merger will fail if pilot seniority is not settled in advance. Recommends pilots work it out without arbitration. LOL
DOH and a fence protects everyone who does not expect a windfall.

DOH protects who?

I think Mr. Crandall is suggesting that some form of DOH protects the merger.

This thread/youtube link should be made a sticky.

When has American ever merged by DOH? Why do you believe they want to now and how did you take away from the video Crandall is inferring DOH?

I didn't read ANYTHING in his message regarding DOH or anything else. He was in my opinion suggesting an AGREEMENT or METHOD to amicably combine the lists.
We would probably be smart to put the American, US Airways, America West and yes the Nic lists on the arbitrators desk and let them decide whether to use two or three lists in order to hash it all out according to McCaskill Bond (sp?) and the model of Delta and Northwest. (They don't hate each other). Take our lumps and restrictions and then go forward with our focus on making the biggest the best!

East pilots always hear ONLY what they want to hear...

APA Pilots Opposing USAir Merger: Your New Seniority Number

I'm not East. Nic does not affect me one way or the other, but I do think Bob is speaking to appease APA pilots in this message.

Few AA pilots are interested in what Bob thinks. He's still anti-labor and supported current management, whereas the pilots clearly don't. He believed LBFO I was a good deal. If the media wants to publish his opinions, so be it, but they have nothing to do with what AA pilots want, nor should his irrelevant advice have any weight.

this guy is dying to be CEO and/or have the power he once did. So he releases a You Tube video so he can "talk to everyone." (Gotta love the internet). However he is a has-been, akin to Jimmy Carter releasing a video on how to "handle" Syria. Uh,.....

He talks American American American. What he may not realize is that post-merger, the MBA's at both companies may rename it US Airlines and AA (and US Airways) will be a thing of the past.

Just my two cents, Merry Christmas

The "NO to merger" thing is gaining some steam at AA. Most of the guys I talk to are very concerned about SLI and the inevitable closure of overlapping bases and assets, which knock fences down fast.

AA has the route structure and the fleet to go it alone, if not mismanaged, and if employees are treated as assets rather than labor cost units.

Parker has stated publicly that it will indeed remain American Airlines. Top to bottom, the colors, logo, uniforms etc. and headquarters will be DFW.

Read between the lines as he states pilots loosing seniority and having to fly smaller equipment, in other words don't expect your WB to carry so much weight as to push US Airways pilots towards the bottom of the list.

I think Bob Crandall is still loyal to AA management and my bet says he has been tasked to assist them in retaining control. In the opinion of some, a certain captain who posts a blog is also suspected of acting directly on behalf of current management.

What better way to flip pilots out regarding a merger then bring up draconian seniority issues ? :eek:

If current managment wanted to convince most of the pilots a stand alone plan is better than a merge for them, all they would have to do (or have done) is offer a competitive contract and then produce a believable and viable business plan. They've done neither. Horton himself has said he's not adverse to a merger, he just wants to do it with current management in control and that means after Chapter 11 exit which is best to maximize HIS personal profit. The seniority issue will be in no different a place should it occur after Chapter 11 exit as before, it's just one management team will benefit more.

Either way, the AA pilots are in the same boat in a merger. If a merger is likely to happen anyway, I'd prefer it to occur while still in Chapter 11 which provides a better chance at improving our contract and at the same times DOESN'T reward those (again) for screwing the pilots over ad nauseum.

Exactly- US Airways is toxic. All the pilots over there want is date of hire- that's all they parrot

Thank you eaglefly.

Thank you for restoring my faith in the general acumen of American pilots. Are there really guys who think this will go Date of Hire? Do they not know of/care about the McCaskill-Bond?

As we all know, there are no guarantees in aviation

Unfortunately yes, there is a small percentage of pilots succombing to fear and running around in circles waving their hands and screaming that the sky is falling. Some are looking to foster that fear for the benefit of still others. Ultimately, it will be the UCC that decides merger or not and IMO, it's far more likely than less. That being the case, if it's going to happen eventually, let's do it now for my previously stated reasons. Horton went into give his plan to the APA BOD and it met with little support, so it couldn't have been that spectacular.

If one looks at the SLI's of the "big 2" and Southwest/AirTran, I think none of the three were identical and each had their specific factors. AA/U wont be any different. WHAT ultimately occurs is unknown, but Crandall's opinion has little to do with the interests of pilots and more to do with the interests of certain managements. Thus, I think one should read his opinions with amusement, but not consider them any further than that.

No, but the name 'American Airlines' is an iconic "brand" and it alone has value. I can't see them relinquishing that identity. If they did, someone else would be hot to snatch it and start up or change their carriers name to it.

In the case of this merger, in 5-7 years, it really becomes a merger of American Airlines and America West as virtually all the U East pilots will be gone (along with many from AA). That is ONE aspect I would think the APA would be communicating regarding seniority consideration of a post-fence airline and that is the crux of concern for most AA pilots that are concerned. I think fences would virtually eliminate windfall for the East pilots, but relatively junior West pilots could make end runs to the Widebodies.

We shall see.

This brings up an excellent point. AA Brand recognition / etc is probably the most valuable part of this whole thing. More than routes, equipment, etc etc, which indeed generate money however big picture wise, brand is the most valuable asset AA has.

http://executiveeducation.wharton.up...your-brand.pdf

Brand is really secondary, just look at the combined network in the most profitable market in the world, us east coast. There is a potential gold mine just factoring the possible feed combinations to europe, Asia,SA, Caribbean.

Huh? West pilots aren't relatively "junior", west pilots have been held from their rightful seats by the east pilots. I am all for a fence for the amr wide bodies, 7 years sounds fair to me. Combined retirements really make it a moot point anyways.

I was speaking of a post merger, post fence snapshot after most of the East has retired and relative to far more senior AA pilots. Not everything in the world revolves around your East/West dispute you know.

I know what you mean, being downgraded for 4 years now makes me a little sensitive.

Unless of course you have been living under a rock, AA is today nowhere near the new United and DAL has left the building. There is no way on earth that AA could compete with either of those carriers with its current size because if it were possible wouldnt they already be doing that?? Traditional growth thru a/c orders take years and AA is sitting on some of the oldest equipment in the business. I think a merger will happen because the smart money says its the best option.

WD at AWA

How about the savings in bringing the airbus into the fleet ? Usairways is the biggest airbus operator with training, sims, maintenance, spares etc.

Know what you are talking about! We ALL dont want DOH thats an east thing and that ship sailed when the arbitrator made his ruling. Now since that time the east pilots have delayed and STOLEN their way into seats they did not deserve. Their actions have been nothing short of criminal and some of us are itching for the wrong move to be made so that we can sue all the parties involved and collect $$$$$$$$. It would be easier for a camel to pass thru the eye of a needle than the company and the east pilots getting out of that arbitration. The pilots in the stolen seats are just sitting our reserve for us so thank you for that much east guys cause i hate res.

WD at AWA

Yes, and if it HAS to happen, then I want it inside BK and will take my chances with Parker and the better opportunity to sweeten a sour deal. I don't think the SLI will be influenced by when the merge happens or who the management is.

I say we flush this toilet ASAP as it's stinking up the joint.

Oh that smell is just the east pilots. LOL

Ok dont quite get what you are saying but its not really necessary that I understand. I can say that without a merger AA is in a really bad spot in terms of a competing with the larger UAL and DAL. It would take years just to catch up to where they are today and by then the landscape of both of them will have changed even more. I think the merger happens dispite what a small group of pilots that really dont figure into the scheme of things wants.

WD at AWA

If this merger HAS to happen (market forces you describe and we all know about requiring it), then it's probably best for the AA pilots for it to occur PRIOR to Chapter 11 exit. At that point, APA negotiates with Parker to improve the CLA (not current TA) who has shown more interest in a model of less outsourcing as opposed to Horton who wants to dismantle the product via codesharing (4% Parker and 50% Horton).

I think it comes down to a merger and Parker working with the combined assets on the East coast and that being more to the advantage of "AA" (being AA/U) then codeshare or Horton who can only regain some assemblance of East coast and Carribean markets he's handed over to Jet Blue on a silver platter by.....well, either codesharing with them, trying to merge with them or perhaps even them acquiring American Eagle. Let's face it, this management hasn't done much with AA but run it vertically into the terrain over the last decade and I see little chance of real magic from the current magicians.

The Parker doctrine would be best for mainline pilots and the Horton scheme would be best for him, a few others and maybe One World.

IMO what would be best is a stand-alone AA without Horton and his gang. But Horton has a bit of a halo over his purported "excellent" handling of the BK - too bad he cannot handle a functioning, healthy airline instead.

The thought of inheriting, becoming a part of this East-West squabble, is nauseating.

APA will dominate the merger. USAPA may lose all leverage after a future MOU drops Change of Control. USAPA bargains SLI, pay parity, equipment/block protections... now or never.

A mass of East pilots will retire prior to SLI. A 2 year narrow body fence and 5 year wide body fence would solve protect APA significantly.

Longterm, the Nic award would bring the most damage to APA career expectation.

Well you are missing some very glaring facts there my friend. First is the fact that AA today would never be able to compete with UAL and like I said DAL has already left the building. The most important asset that AA holds today is the south american routes. DAL is in a position now where they could give AA a run for their money both from the US and now with that 49% ownership of Virgin Atlantic they could do it from Europe as well. In other words DAL is not at all playing around!!!

Second, there would be no"becoming part of the east/ west squabble" as you put it. Parker played this one to the bone and it was really a smart move. See, he knows that APA becomes the agent the minute the merger is announced. The only official thing left to do would be for APA to file for single carrier status and that would be over and done within 180days. Everyone on the planet knows that there was an arbitration ruling in our case and that by not honoring it only opens up law suits. APA knows this and I would suspect that they would do as the east has done to the west and use its greater numbers to force an issue. APA would never put itself in harms way AGAIN especially not with that TWA suit hanging over it head. The path of no problems for APA and a combined carrier would be to use the arbitrated list. The east has NO LAW SUIT position what so ever. The west pilots do have a suit where they could go after company, usapa, APA and the list goes on.

WD at AWA

Cacti, I think you need a little sensitivity therapy. Glad you joined in with some name calling. It lets us all know your back to yourself.
All the East wants is their own attrition. What you want is the East attrition. You will be in majority in 5-7 years anyway.
The line pilot has little to do with Union decisions including binding arbitration. USAPA does whatever they want just like ALPA.
The PHX franchise has little growth potential that is why you were down graded. Your DFR may sink this whole merger. If you listen to Crandall he knows another arbitration could kill the deal. Whatever APA and USAPA works out will have to work. At least there is a chance of an increase in pay, something DP resisted first time around. You will see little resistance on the East if there is a little wage increase. Whatever final SLI is, APA will prevail. APA is unified and respected and feared by management. USAPA in not a concern to management.

I sat and heard that argument back when we had a real union on this property."The west wants out attrition"!! Tell me capt, just how much attrition is there when you are one inch away from liquidation? Yeah I know, "the east really wasn't in bad shape it was all a ploy to get you to accept LOA93 right"? We are stagnant because you in the east have stolen what you did not earn in the process you picked, the arbitrator you picked and then you tossed the real union in favor of this east cult group in an effort to further damage our careers. If ever there were a case of cutting off your nose to spite your face this is it. The east pay is the same as a Horizon jet capt back when they had jets. A330 capt makes the same as an AA 777 f/0!! This is the choice you made in your efforts to steal and where you had no worries with the original award and time , now you do. West pilots are now waiting to invade the east bases to take our rightful positions that you stole. It was nothing short of criminally stupid to do whats been done for the last 5 years.

WD at AWA

It isn't the east s attrition, it was stolen from the west. The west started 2008 with over 1800 pilots And is down to 1300 today while the east has hired pilots into seats belonging to west pilots.

Wiskey Driver and Cacti, you have saved USAirways East pilots from liquidation? Thank you pilots for making management decisions and arranging the financing.
The East franchise is where the value has always been in this code sharing airline. If the East franchise had no value it would have been liquidated. All new major routes are going to the East due to the strength of the franchise. You Westies are doing 30% of the former East flying due to the weakness of the West franchise. So who really is stealing jobs? It is your golden boy DP who is hiring and has built up excessive staffing on the East side. There are pilots who barely fly 10 hours a month on the East? Why did DP say no recalls on the West in the crew news? Because the West franchise is a leisure market according to DP, weak in revenue.
If APA and USAPA can not come to an agreement outside of another arbitration the deal may be dead. Your DFR is the toxic deal breaker in consolidation, not DOH with fences. Management doesn't care about the NIC or DOH. Management will keep APA happy.

Well at least this thing turned into another east-west biotch fest...Merry Christmas everyone!

Mongo