cactusmike

The idea that a ten year West pilot will go ahead of a 22 year AA pilot is absurd. There are no 22 year AA pilots on the bottom of the seniority list.

The Nicolau award was a ratio with the top 517 positions given to the East for their widebody slots. Everything else was relative position. A bottom East pilot stayed on the bottom. The junior west pilot stayed junior. R57 will chime in about how the furloughed east pilots were brought in under the bottom west pilot post merger but that was because of the snapshot of seniority taken on the merger date. A furloughed pilot at the time of the merger was just that, furloughed.

If you think the upcoming seniority list will look any different that the Nicolau. Award then you have not been following SLIs in the last decade. It's going to be a ratio and it will be by equipment group. AA pilots have a lot more widebodys, they will get a hefty ratio for those positions. Group 2 will be more even. No one will jump positions, everyone will stay relatively the same.

That's the way I believe this will go down and we will see how close I am in about 18 months. Until then I would not get too worked up.

cactiboss

So you know that an arbitration can't happen until we have a jcba right? Stay with me here and use your brain, who will be your union when the jcba is complete and the arbitration starts?

PS. The facts of the dfr your sorry union lost have not changed, only ripeness (btw does the mou put you in apa green book? Hmmmmm)

R57 relay

You're wrong Mike. Here ya go:

"CONCLUSION
[10] For the foregoing reasons, we hold that Plaintiffs’
DFR claim is not ripe; therefore, the case is REMANDED to
the district court with directions that the action be DISMISSED.
No costs to either side."

I'm sure your attorney's are confident, they have hundred$$$ of reasons an hour to be!

I don't see the Nic being our starting point in SLI negotiations. If it is there will be suits from east pilots. Use DOH, suits from west pilots. Now, if you use the 3 list method Parker mentioned.....who knows.

I know you guys have a plan. I felt pretty sure of that when the MOU passed by 97% in PHX. We might start with the Nic, I don't know, but I don't see some of the angles being thrown around.

R57 relay

Yes I do know that about arbitration, but who will be controlling the US data in the process that will be going on up until then? Will the APA open themselves to a US East DFR by taking the list(s) that USAPA was working with and inserting an seniority list that was never used and the USAPA had a federal court ruling that said that they could indeed change it? Maybe they will, we'll see.

No, the MOU does not put us in the green book. It is a template to get to a JCBA that most likely will be mostly green book.

R57 relay

Wrong again. Time to go back and read the Nicolau Opinion and Award.

Nicolau cleaned up our seniority lists to 2007, to "more reflect the merged airline." Thing is, that merged airline had returned 300 formerly furloughed pilots to the line, despite the east taking the brunt of the A/C retirements. But Nicolau ignored that and held only the formerly furloughed pilots to their 2005 positions.

While you are there, review the disparity in pilots per A/C that Nicolau mentioned, but did nothing about.

Rudder1

HAHA, an east DFR lawsuit against APA for using a binding arbitration. I guess it isnt funny because thats how delusional many easties like R57 are.

As a third lister it has taken nearly a year to realize there are rational people on the east. They seem to be the Empire guys.

We are all looking forward to moving forward and most of us are looking forward to the day R57 and his ilk swing gear for the Westicles

cactiboss

so who will be responsible for dfr at that time? You get it, as usual just don't want to admit it. The apa will be responsible for the wests dfr at that time. We won a unanimous guilty verdict in less than 30 minutes, twa guys won big damages. You think apa wants to get involved in a clear cut dfr?
So does it change your pay rates, vacation and work rules? Are those the same for the west?

LittleBoyBlew

Spoken like a true westicle TRANSPLANT!! You guys are as clueless as a blind man at a peepshow.. The west also claimed that the Nic would be an integral part of the MOU.. WRONG AGAIN !!.
Now that the min fleet protections are gone, the west will desperately cling to their beloved Nic, because its no secret that the PHX pull down will begin in short order.
You boys will get your day in court. And finally, once and for ALL, this squabble will be put to bed..In the mean time,,,,Keep writing those checks!!

R57 relay

I'm delusional? If you think so you haven't learned much in you time here. My west friends call me the moderate eastie.

DFRs are hard to win, and I wouldn't predict the success of an east filed one, but if you don't think that is an issue then you are delusional. I accepted the Nicolau, with all it's flaws, years ago. I've yet to live with it though.

I'm sure the attorneys for both sides of the US fight have a plan. I imagine they both feel they have the winning hand. We'll see, and I will live with whatever it is. I'm ready to move on.

If you are on the bus in CLT send me a PM and if we fly together we can chat about it.

BTW, I swing gear now for my F/Os, so what difference will it make if that F/O started with AWA or AA?

R57 relay

I expect the APA to look out for it's members and do what is in it's best interest. I don't presume to say what they think.

The MOU is not a JCBA. It is more like an LOA that bridges the transition to a JCBA. Several things are the same as the west, more are different. Different STD, LTD, scheduling, rigs, and oh yeah Seham's favorites-CREW MEALS. It has nothing is the merger does not close and I hate to break it to you but that is a chance. US/UA went on for about a year before the government came out against it and UA pulled out.

Don't count your chickens yet. Doing that has cost you guys before.