Wiskey Driver

Again complete and utter BULLSH T!!!! Bump and flush has and will NEVER cover an operational downsizing. So as soon as Parker stated moving aircraft east bump and flush would be lost to DOH and we in the west FOREVER SCREWED!. Go and pull that crap on someone who knows nothing about airlines and how they operate.

Hey we are still waiting on your proof of where you were on the AAA list and where you are on the NIC. Now I know already you are within a few percentage points but you go on and prove to the world how badly you were harmed by the award, THE FLOOR IS YOURS WE AWAIT YOUR PROOF????????????????????

WD at AWA

Wiskey Driver

No no NO!! you are lying!!!!! See I know you THINK you get to recoup all you lost in your years with that failed company thru a merger but NO. Same applies to you as does littleboy show us all where you were on your AAA list and where you fall on the NIC list. Now we both know but i am giving you both the opportunity to prove me wrong. I am sitting here right now with your list prior to 05 and the NIC list so state your names and I will scan and show the world what liar's you both are.

WD at AWA

Wiskey Driver

No ignorance at all on your part AA73 you are spot on correct! The top 500 went east so only WEST most senior pilots lost major percentage points. The rest was slotting as you have pointed out.

Now truth be told here the east wants to take its most JR pilot who was one number away from furlough and make him mid level line holding captain at the expense of the west. They have STOLEN so much now that people hired in 07 are sitting capt while we have west pilots hired in the 90's stuck as first officers.

WD at AWA

R57 relay

Nicolau used about every method known to man.

The top 517 went to the east, to protect widebody flying even though we didn't have 517 widebody captains. The 517 was the number of every pilot on the widebody fleet, so guys that couldn't hold widebody captain got super seniority over the top west pilots.

Next, he took pilots listed as furloughed in 2005(even though about 300 were flying under the US Airways certificate at Mid Atlantic) and stapled them to the bottom, even though he used the seniority list from 2007 because it "better reflected the merged airline", Nicolau's words.

In between it was slotting, but ended up pretty much 1 for 1.

The problem for most of the east wasn't the position that they had the day the Nic was produced. For many it was close to the same relative position. The problem was that now most would never see their unmerged movement because the west was, on average, younger and now the massive amount of attrition that was about to hit the east would go, in large part, to the west.

By the end of 2007 a larger part of the west would be making huge gains in relative position vs. what they could achieve unmerged. Right now only about the bottom 10% of west pilots wouldn't be in the 737 and greater captain range. That takes about 25 years LOS to hold on the east.All of them would be in the e190 capt range and widebody F/O range.

Since the age 60 rule changed, there were no fences.

Guys that didn't have much expectation of flying widebody could step right into it.

This explains it well:

http://www.planebusiness.com/planebu...cusairways.pdf

ALPA merger policy called for avoiding windfalls at the expense of the other side. The Nicolau award clearly failed at that.

R57 relay

Lies and damnable lies!

The '07 hires are sitting E190 captain, which pays like a F/O. It takes about 25 years LOS to hold 737 or greater captain. You guys didn't get any E190s because of an ARBITRATION!!!!!!!!! Want to turn you back on an arbitration?

The reason they are stuck there as F/Os is because of the transition agreement separate ops provision. Period.

Wiskey Driver

The best you can come up with is the east mec's presentation for the arbitration panel. These were looked at Relay and evaluated by the panel relay what else do you have?? Did you dig up the east list and the award and compare?? We are all waiting on you to prove and post the results

WD at AWA

R57 relay

I don't trust you with my name, you seem psycho.

If a guy would retire at #4 through attrition on the east stand alone list, and the best he could get on the Nicolau is over 500, what % drop is that?

That is out of the widebody captain range. And who will be in front of him? West pilots who had little expectation of flying them.

R57 relay

EF is currently a junior narrow body F/O on the west. Flip the switch on the Nic and he would jump over 15% pts in relative position, putting him the the A320 captain range, or widebody F/O. Windfall at the expense of the east.

KillingMeSmalls

It looks like the west pilots are made up of lighter substances because they all seem to be floating to the top.



That being said, I still think relative seniority is fair and will undoubtably be used in the merger. I am willing to bet the arbitrators will use the snapshot lists (East + West + AA) and slot them by equipment.

R57 relay

There is nothing unfair about relative seniority, if used correctly.

In the Pan Am/National merger Gill produced a SLI very similar to the Nic. But, he said that he could not go as far down the list with relative position because of the huge disparity in LOS at the same levels of relative position. That if he did the PA pilots would never reach the same level of upward movement. The same situation we had with US/AW, but Nicolau did it anyway.

Nicolau could have placed certain groups a little higher, thereby allowing them to progress more fairly. He didn't and that provides a windfall for the west at the expense of the east.

I'll see if I can find it.