SIC Logging of Instrument Time
03-20-2008, 05:11 AM
#1
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SIC Logging of Instrument Time
FAR 61.51(g)(1) says: "A person may log instrument time only for that flight time when the person operates the aircraft solely by reference to instruments under actual or simulated instrument flight conditions."
How does this apply to airline crews? Can the SIC log instrument time when it is the captain's leg? Does the PIC log instrument time regardless of who is actually flying?
How does this apply to airline crews? Can the SIC log instrument time when it is the captain's leg? Does the PIC log instrument time regardless of who is actually flying?
03-20-2008, 05:25 AM
#4
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Well, at least I am not alone then. I was in the crewroom the other day and a new hire FO was ecstatic about breaking the "double-digit" actual IFR time. He went on to remark how it is great to be flying 121 and being able to log actual time on each leg. I was left scratching my head wondering if this is a widely accepted practice or if he just didn't know the rules.
03-20-2008, 05:28 AM
#5
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As for the logging of instrument time... Ask that question to 10 different FSDO feds and you'll get a different answer each time. I had several feds tell me you can log it when you are the non-flying pilot because you are a "required crewmember" for the aircraft. My understanding of the regs says when you are the "sole manipulator of the flight controls" which would make me believe only when you are the pilot flying. But apparently a few Feds say otherwise.
When it comes to IAP's you can only log the ones you flew. That is for sure.
When it comes to IAP's you can only log the ones you flew. That is for sure.
03-20-2008, 05:42 AM
#6
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Originally Posted by RJ85FO
Well, at least I am not alone then. I was in the crewroom the other day and a new hire FO was ecstatic about breaking the "double-digit" actual IFR time. He went on to remark how it is great to be flying 121 and being able to log actual time on each leg. I was left scratching my head wondering if this is a widely accepted practice or if he just didn't know the rules.
Gotta love the newbies... they know it all. I guess my thoughts on it are I have more actual IFR and approaches than I'd care to have. I'm in no hurry to log any more. I'll stick to the conservative approach on logging the time.
03-20-2008, 05:47 AM
#7
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Originally Posted by UnlimitedAkro
My understanding of the regs says when you are the "sole manipulator of the flight controls" which would make me believe only when you are the pilot flying. But apparently a few Feds say otherwise.
In FAR 1, "Operate" is defined as: "with respect to aircraft, means use, cause to use of authorize to use aircraft, for the purpose (except as provided in 91.13 of this chapter) of air navigation including the piloting of aircraft, with or without the right of legal control (as owner, lessee, or otherwise)."
Emphasis added by me. Then they do not define "piloting." Perhaps this is where the confusion lies? Are you "piloting" when you are SIC regardless of whether or not you are the PF?
03-20-2008, 05:57 AM
#9
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I have always logged actual time as PF and PNF. I only log approaches I fly though. As for explaining, I am not too concerned. I have never been asked about it in any of my interviews. That was at 2 regionals and a major.
03-20-2008, 06:39 AM
#10
ULTP-Ultra Low Tier Pilot
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This has been covered before on other threads, search and you will see. The report on the last thread was a FSDO guy said you can log actual as either FP or NFP because the airplane requires 2 crewmembers, although you can only log your apps.
Or Course another FSDO may have another opinion.
Lets give it a rest.
Or Course another FSDO may have another opinion.
Lets give it a rest.
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