RJ85FO

Here is an extract from the Part 61 FAQ's. According to Washington, the logging of Instrument time is independent of who is the flying pilot.


Subject: Re: Logging Actual Instrument Time by the SIC

QUESTION: Regarding § 61.51's definition of "operating an aircraft" an aircraft certified for two pilots is being operated under part 121. The PIC is "flying" the aircraft. The SIC is the non-flying pilot. Can the SIC log actual instrument flight time for those periods of actual IMC conditions when the PIC is flying the aircraft? Is the SIC considered to be "operating" the aircraft at this moment to justify logging this instrument time.

ANSWER: Ref. § 61.51(f) and (g); The SIC who is the non-flying pilot would be permitted to log the actual instrument flight time as follows:

Total Flight Time: You may log the total flight time
SIC Flight Time: You may log the total flight time as SIC flight time while serving as the SIC
PIC Flight Time: None
[Make and model of aircraft] Flight time: You may log the total flight time in the make and model of aircraft
[Day or Night Conditions] Flight Time: You may log the total flight time for the condition of flight
Actual Instrument Flight Time: You may log the total actual instrument flight time
Cross Country Flight Time: If the flight qualifies as cross country flight time, you may log the total cross country flight time
Instrument Approaches: None
Takeoffs (Daytime): None
Landings (Daytime): None
Takeoffs (Night time): None
Landings (Night time): None
{Q&A-345a}

QUESTION: I recently upgraded to captain and have a question regarding the logging of flight time. My question is: As the PIC, when I’m not the flying pilot, should I be logging night and/or instrument flight time? Obviously the approaches can't be logged, but I'm wondering if the actual instrument time can be logged. Same goes for the night time.

ANSWER: Ref. § 61.51(e)(2) and § 61.57; If you’re a holder of an ATP certificate, and provided you’re “. . . acting as pilot-in-command of an operation requiring an airline transport pilot certificate” then yes you may log actual instrument time and night time while acting as pilot-in-command. But don’t read into that answer, that you can count the time toward meeting the recent flight experience of § 61.57. Because you can’t. Those requirements are “hands-on-the-controls” requirements.
{Q&A-340}

flyguyniner11

a checkairmen told me that you can as pic log all approachs even if your pnf, i didnt really beleive this but could there be any reason for this train of thought?

Spooled

There is an FAA Legal Interpretation on this matter.

http://www.faa.gov/about/office_org/.../Carpenter.rtf

It doesn't matter what one FDSO says vs another.

As a required SIC, you are allowed to log instrument time, even if you are not the pilot flying. However you can only log the approaches if you were the pilot flying.

"You first ask whether it would be proper under FAR 61.51(g) for a properly qualified SIC to log instrument flight time flown during instrument conditions while serving as the SIC in Part 121 operations on an aircraft that requires two crewmembers. The answer is yes. As a qualified SIC, and as a required crewmember, you are "operating" the aircraft within the meaning of FAR 61.51(g). Therefore, as the SIC operating the aircraft "solely by reference to instruments under actual or simulated instrument flight conditions," you would log that time as SIC flown in instrument conditions. Naturally, the PIC logs the time as PIC flown in instrument conditions.

You then ask if, for the purposes of maintaining instrument currency, an instrument approach on the above flight flown by the PIC can be logged as an instrument approach by the SIC. The answer is no. As the SIC you have not "performed" the approach as contemplated by FAR 61.57(c) because you were not the sole manipulator of the controls during the approach."

hendefea

its a "condition of flight"...treated the same as night time

Ottopilot

It really doesn't matter. At this point in your career, actual time will not be the deciding factor in getting hired at a major. I doubt they notice it at all. I logged all IMC time both when PF or PM. It is a two crew aircraft and both of you are flying the aircraft. I logged only the approach and landings I made as PF. I hear some airlines look at actual to be about 10% of your total (plus or minus some). Mine is 8.7%. I only have 1076 actual.

Now I do autolands: who logs that? The SIC is the PF until the PIC takes over and "lands". The AP does the actual approach and landing. Does the SIC log the approach and the PIC log the landing? I don't really care for an answer, but I say both pilots log both approach and landing in autolands. The company gives both pilots currency credit when doing an autoland.

UnlimitedAkro

I also have logged all instrument time as flying pilot and non flying pilot. When I interviewed at a major I was not questioned about it, infact I dont know anyone that ever was. Interviewers seem to be more concerned with lines in the logbook like "Door open in flight" and "emergency landing" and "fist fight in cabin during climb out".

Nightsky

Precisely why I leave all the comment fields blank.

UnlimitedAkro

Thats one way to do it. I on the other hand am great at telling stories, and those stories have always helped me in interviews. I intentionally put those remarks down for interivews. There is nothing wrong with being able to tell an interview board what you did correctly, what you learned, and what you might have done differently. Experience is a good thing.

Ottopilot

There are a lot of interviews with question like, "tell me about a time when you...." It's nice to have notes in your comments. Don't leave anything incriminating, but keep a record of "stories" for interviews. It doesn't have to be in your logbook's comment section. I had to go back through my logbook and try to jog my memory for stories because I didn't leave any comments or notes.

FlyerJosh

Comments about experience building events: good. Comments such as "Buzzed football stadium dropping water balloons and flour sacks" or "Almost bit it after attempting outside loop in piper warrior. Plane down for next three weeks due to bent wingspar": Bad.