Airline Pilot Central Forums - Judge Silver rules

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Quote:

Originally Posted by 70Espada (Post 1556824)

Purple, care to comment on this.

Send more money to Marty.. after he gives you one document that affirms the Nic must be used by anyone. ;)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Al Czervik (Post 1556826)

So usapa is representing both the east and west. So they must bring a list to the table with APA. The only two lists that exist are 1) the NIC 2) the individual lists from the east and west.
Is this correct?

Technically. But the court basically ruled that usapa can show up with any list it wants. Until she can compare that list to Nicolau she cant determine if a DFR happened.

Quote:

Originally Posted by AA gear puller (Post 1556818)

Here is the most surprising nugget that I took from Silvers ruling. Very interesting if true...

"The parties have not explained how the process contemplated by the MOU could
ever take effect. The MOU contemplates the need for arbitration but also requires the post- merger carrier remain neutral. Under the Court’s reading of McCaskill-Bond, there will be no need for arbitration because, based on explicit language in the MOU, prior to the arbitration, there will have been an election and there will be only one certified representative for all pilots. Simply put, with the carrier having promised neutrality, there will not be two parties to go to arbitration. Whether the post-merger carrier’s promise to remain neutral regarding seniority violates the obligations imposed on it by McCaskill-Bond is an open
question and one not presented in this case".

Yup, that's what we have been talking about. She just used usapa's own arguments to interpret that they will be removed from the process once apa is elected. Now what does apa do? It would seem the easy way out is give east pilots autonomy within apa to represent themselves in sli (same for west) and it would propably survive any dfr.

Quote:

Originally Posted by PurpleTurtle (Post 1556832)

IMHO, Judge Silver is a masterful politician all the way up until the point where she says "ACCORDINGLY IT IS ORDERED...." She did the same thing back when we spent a year or so in front of her with the company's DJ trial. She is all over the place arguing everyone's side and poking and prodding at all sides, but in the end she ORDERS things according to the law, no matter how distasteful she makes it appear for her to pick a side.

Her opinion prior to the explicit ORDER will not be reviewed on appeal, and has no force on what the parties to the MOU chose do to achieve the obligations of the MOU they themselves signed.

Well, that's your opinion and in fairness I did ask you to comment. Let me rephrase by asking for an answer. The question was posed in the quote.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eastie Pilot (Post 1556478)

Don't bother with junior ATL 88 pilot or Alaska guy. Those guys never spent a day in your shoes. They both have slanted opinions and they could care less about the facts of the case. It's easy to snipe from the sidelines. Personally I could give two craps what those guys think. Judge Silver ruled. AOL lost. End of story. Their little comments from the sidelines are like the sore losers that say "you guys suck" after their team loses a football game.

The question now is will USAPA repeat their history of revisionism and disregard and alienate yet another arbitrator (if they have that option or ability) ?

If so, the razor-sharp boomerang might just have been nothing but delayed from its destiny, instead of diverted from it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by 70Espada (Post 1556765)

Yes, but it also contains the same warning given by a previous judge. Disregarding the Nic could have consequences, especially since USAPA hasn't given a valid reason for doing so. It all might depend how far the east steps over the line. The Nic being the line. Some east posters on here understand that, others think they just won carte blance to screw over the west. That clearly isn't the case.

A union is never given carte blanche to screw over anyone and I don't know of a single east pilot that believes it.

The warning about ignoring the Nic was in a previous case. In this case she distilled the AOL suit down to a couple of questions-Did USAPA fail it's DFR by not including the Nic in the MOU(So if the question was on trial, it can't be in there, right?). And do the west pilots have the right to separate representation in the MB process. She ruled no to both.

Quote:

Originally Posted by AA gear puller (Post 1556818)

Despite what cacti and AOL say, this is what Judge Silver ORDERED:

Accordingly,
IT IS ORDERED the Motion for Preliminary Injunction (Doc. 13) is DENIED AS
MOOT.
IT IS FURTHER ORDERED the Motions for Summary Judgment (Docs. 211, 212)
are DENIED.
IT IS FURTHER ORDERED the Motion for Directed Verdict (Doc. 239) is
DENIED.
IT IS FURTHER ORDERED the Motion to Include Declaration of Gary Hummel
(Doc. 256) is DENIED.
IT IS FURTHER ORDERED the Motion to Strike (Doc. 257) is GRANTED IN
PART AND DENIED IN PART. Mr. Hummel’s declaration, and the portions of
subsequent filings that cite to it, are STRICKEN but it is not necessary to strike USAPA’s
motion (Doc. 256).
IT IS FURTHER ORDERED the Motion to Strike (Doc. 283) is DENIED.
IT IS FURTHER ORDERED the Motion For Injunction (Doc. 297) is DENIED AS
MOOT.
IT IS FURTHER ORDERED the Clerk of Court is directed to enter judgment in
favor of Defendant US Airline Pilots Association on Count I and Count IV, a judgment in
favor of US Airways, Inc. on Count II, and a judgment of dismissal without prejudice on
Count III.
DATED this 10th day of January, 2014.

Cacti, show me anywhere in there where she banned USAPA one the APA takes over.

Just because the judge doesn't understand it doesn't mean it won't happen.

Quote:

Originally Posted by cactiboss (Post 1556800)

That's exactly what just happened. Silver took usapa at their word, only the legal bargaining agent is allowed at the table and can do anything they want with the companies concurrence. The minute apa takes over usapa is removed from the process.

Show the ruling that says that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by cactiboss (Post 1556723)

We aren't letting you get away with this. We might not win but we will fight you every step of the way, appeal to the 9th being prepared by both leonidas and company. Chew on that.

Hey, it's worked great for you so far, right?!

We have a bid out. There are around 60 captain vacancies on it, for ONE month. You guys haven't had that many in what, 8 years? Instead of taking 90% of the golden egg, you said all or nothing. Fine. No upgrades and your bottom reserve F/Os have around 8 years while ours have about a month.

How's that working for you cacti? You should be mad. Mad that you followed Fergi and Koontz off the cliff.

Munch on that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by R57 relay (Post 1556863)

Our legal team is who interpreted it for us and AOL update is accurate on what the attorneys said. Now this doesn't mean that east pilots may not participate, only that usapa as a legal entity may not.