Airline Pilot Central Forums - Judge Silver rules

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Laker24 (Post 1556670)

R57

No threats intended. I don't threaten people on anonymous message boards. I don't think the Wye river had any chance of a successful outcome. The only outcome the east would accept was straight date of hire. That hasn't changed since day 1. Just because you or your MEC chairman at the time were reasonable doesn't mean the masses would have accepted anything less than your "gold standard." In fact you haven't changed as a group since the first UAL merger or the years before when local alpa meetings devolved into fist fights in the parking lot.

I imagine the west pilots you've flown with have been professional and courteous out of a sense of self respect. They are professional aviators and don't let their emotions get the best of them in the cockpit. But don't take that to mean they have forgotten how badly they have been f#cked by USAPA. No pilot could/would ever forget that.

And no matter how friendly you are as a East captain there will always be that gulf dividing you from the right seat. Your group re-negged on an agreement and severely damaged the other group. That's not a threat it's just going to be a fact of life going forward. Can you envision any other dynamic?

As your east brethren retire it might not be the most warm and fuzzy work environments going forward. Of course I could be wrong and the West could collectively realize that it was in their best interests all along to be stapled by a few thousand furloughed east pilots who had no hope of ever being recalled...

You just don't know what you are talking about. If it makes you feel better to believe that DOH was the only acceptable thing(despite the fact that LOS was our proposal to Nic), then knock yourself out. I'm in a better place to know, and I do know that's not true.

As I said, you guys need to look in the mirror. We had a transition agreement that you guys thought you would have to use as we did. You didn't see it coming and after the home run with the Nic, you suddenly didn't want to deal with the repercussions.

No warm and fuzzy? Aw.

Quote:

Originally Posted by cactiboss (Post 1556680)

Bottom line is Silver solved nothing. The Mou is "neutral" regarding east/west seniority and her order follows nothing has changed. The west will have to wait until usapa proffers a list other than Nic to go to court. Now my personal opinion is the apa, working with the company, will give the west a seat to protect itself.

I sincerely hope the company invites the "West Merger Committee" to another meeting. Please, Dougie, please. DO IT! :D

Quote:

Originally Posted by hockeypilot44 (Post 1556689)

You're not very bright, are you? Just keep ****ing money away at a losing cause. It's your money. If you want to keep wasting it, that's your choice. There is no one left on your side. Parker, APA, USAPA, and the court system are all moving on while you guys keep wasting money and fighting. You will not win. It is what it is. Just move on and be thankful you will have a job with solid seniority at one of the big 3.

Yeah like you would have moved on had you lost? We met with the attorneys, this ruling didn't do away with the Nic, it simply kicked the can. And btw the can has been kicked into the apa/companies arms, the same company which has written that usapa cannot fairly represent the west.

P.s. This ruling doesn't stop the company and apa of including the west voluntarily.

I can't imagine, with Marty putting out his own shingle, That he would advise you that your done. With your pay raises and increased cash flow. Marty wants his to keep coming.

Start about page 9 of the decision and read 2 pages worth where silver says there will never be a seniority list to compare the NIC award to, to determine if there is a DDR. Essentially. It's over and good luck. Move on....

Quote:

Originally Posted by cactiboss (Post 1556694)

Yeah like you would have moved on had you lost? We met with the attorneys, this ruling didn't do away with the Nic, it simply kicked the can.

Your attorneys are laughing all the way to the bank. Perhaps USAPA should sue AOL.

Quote:

Originally Posted by PurpleTurtle (Post 1556693)

I sincerely hope the company invites the "West Merger Committee" to another meeting. Please, Dougie, please. DO IT! :D

They are going to include the west, count on it. Just a little matter of the apa taking over and amending the mou.

Quote:

Originally Posted by cactiboss (Post 1556694)

Yeah like you would have moved on had you lost? We met with the attorneys, this ruling didn't do away with the Nic, it simply kicked the can.

Your attorneys own your aZ$. You guys are too gullible,... you equate "not gone" with "definitely will get".

Have your attorneys provide you the document that affirms the Nic, and ask him why he doesn't positively affirm a nullified document.

Send more money to Marty for the "Odyssey". :D

Quote:

Originally Posted by cactiboss (Post 1556699)

They are going to include the west, count on it. Just a little matter of the apa taking over and amending the mou.

Yeah, the APA is desperate to figure out how to get you at the table... And the TWA pilots too. Maybe you can give them some advice to help out with that. :D

I am counting on it.. but do you recommend I send more money to Ferggie to make sure it happens?

Quote:

Originally Posted by PurpleTurtle (Post 1556700)

If you have won so convincingly why do you care? The fact is the company wants the west at the table, the apa wants no liability and they will be our bargaining agent prior to MB. There is nothing stopping the apa from allowing the west it's own representation with the companies blessing.

R57,

You are right. I forgot about the LOS proposal. But the fact is a LOS integration would not have been materially different than a DOH integration. The vast underlying difference in pilot groups dictated that a LOS integration would have severely harmed the West.

Your bottom FO had 18 years of service. Our bottom FO had a few months. Even your pilots deep on furlough had enough LOS to be captains on the West. So how could AWA have ever agreed to such a proposal? It's not revisionism but plain fact that the East adopted a hard line stance from day 1 of the negotiations with Nicolau.