Wiskey Driver

Yeah you mad! Its a court ORDER not this so called dicta but I dont expect you to understand.

Dont be mad bro like I said its a life lesson.

WD at AWA

Eastie Pilot

Bro, The only person that appears to be "mad" is you. You've started no less than 10 threads about how much you hate USAPA and East pilots. I can say without a doubt that East pilots moved on from this a long time ago. We have 2012 hires in the right seat of the A330 after this last bid. The East has 78 widebody captain retirements over the next year. I know, I know....."APA is gonna get you....Leonidas is gonna get you." "You guys are gonna pay for what you've done to west pilots". Let me know when something actually happens. Until then, find a hobby, get some fresh air, take an anger management class. Just get help.

PurpleTurtle

Are you Ferggie or Koontz? Don't lie.

wiggy

If I remember, my "admission that I was wrong" had to do with WD's admission that "the west would have used the same veto power over the JCBA, had the Nic not gone their way".

If WD's admission can be shown as the verifiable truth of the West's intentions regarding the joint ratification provisions, then I will admit I'm wrong about that point...no big deal...that quite obviously would lessen the West's moral stance....But.... You seem to allude to the possibility that redressing a (subjectively) bad arbitration was not part of the "author's intentions" in crafting the joint ratification clause in the TA...I think that is the actual truth....you state it was the law of "unintended consequences"...and I agree with you there...You state I and the west couch this whole episode in moral terms...true...I wonder why?

You simply ignore the moral implications and substitute, vaguely "self-justified east economics"...I will admit the moral implications seem to be of no practical import...or at least have been minimalized in the labyrinthine legal pathways this has taken...But, in a vacuum, as a general statement... a total disregard of ethics when it comes to the subject of "money" often becomes the moral equivalent of simply "stealing, because you can get away with it". Sounds harsh, because it is...it is simply the questionable ethical principle that "the ends always justify the means"...and I actually fully understand your attempt to steer the argument away from morality...I realize the east is done with the moral argument...I have engaged you on the subject, R-57, because the ethical issues seem to have at one time in this process affected your opinion...not necessarily all in the east's favor.

As for my "unusual interest" in this case...it boils down to the fact I am interested in "matters of principle". I will admit to a bias in favor of the underdog...a prejudice in favor of the unfairly treated, outvoted minority...as the west surely seems to have been in this case. I will also admit to a bias against DOH...had the DL/NW merger gone DOH, I would now be about 20% junior to what I had been premerger....yes, I'm biased for not wanting to take that hit...and the arbitrators must have thought likewise...(everyone at both airlines stayed within 1-3% percentile of their original seniority) Even you, R-57 have expressed misgivings about DOH. Even though I'm biased to a degree, I am much less so than anyone on either side of this issue...not having any "skin the game".

Wiskey Driver

Ok YOU HAVE WON NOTHING BUT THINK YOU HAVE. Im not mad I laughing at you because you are about to get hit by a train and you cant see it. I am laughing but you really seem upset. YOU MAD TOO BRO?? Dont be.

WD at AWA

Wiskey Driver

Both very very JR to me!!

WD at AWA

wiggy

Ahhh...Eastie, though I'm not exactly accusing you of bragging about the East's fortunes...seemingly thrown under the noses of your West brothers...I realize that probably wasn't your intention, so let me ask you an honest-to-goodness, honest question: Had the Nic been anything other than it was with regard to the bottom 2-300 east furloughs...IOW, had the arbitration been barely passable by both groups, and retained the same conditions and restrictions...(which, I believe all the fences would have long since been removed)...given that idea...would you say that in whatever seniority regime is settled on in the upcoming free-for-all, that the west pilots might be entitled to a share of that success? Or should it be as if that merger never happened WRT to the west pilot's expectations? (Let's even stipulate what the east contends....that responsibility for the 7 year delay lies equally with both parties) Honest question....

Eastie Pilot

0
Actually Wiskey, we've all lost. Some more than others. But again, we've moved on. You're still stuck in, "look out...you're gonna get it.....it's gonna happen this time...really...i'm serious...you're gonna get what's coming" Apparently this time it's a train that's gonna hit us. Lots of predictions. Not so good on results.

We are the ones laughing. Me mad? I don't think I've ever been mad about this. You've kept yours....We've kept ours. I've been pretty happy with that. Try not to take life so seriously. You're gonna have a west bid next week with up to 15 new hires! You should be celebrating! Why don't you start a new thread abot that instead of all the hate and vitriol that you spew in the other 10 plus threads that you've started here.

Wiskey Driver

Ahhh the penny drops we keep ours and you keep yours mantra. Well my good man you had nothing but BK and furlough until AWA came into you lives. We made your payroll, we got you out of BK. The real harm was taking you all on your word that you would be honorable people. That was a mistake on our parts of epic proportion, one that we will not make again.

I see what APA and management are doing, they are effectively removing usapa from the equation and doing so in record time. See the DOJ bought management time to get all if its ducks in a row. Normally it takes 6mos or longer to get to single carrier status but this time management was working getting things in motion so to speak. The single carrier status will be done much sooner. If you took the time to read Paul Jones's double digit letter to MNB, you could see that all of the NMB's requirements have been met so this thing could almost be done by March.

The APA has stated that they will not negotiate seniority until AFTER single carrier status. Now just why do you think that is? Usapa will not play any part in this past putting a list on the table. Now relay will argue "the MOU SAYS" well Jr the MOU dont trump federal law and the last time I checked the M/B was federal.

Take some time to read the MB and get a full understanding of its content and then you will completely understand why I ask, "YOU MAD BRO"??

WD at AWA

crzipilot

First of all. I have seen nothing, nor have your shown anything that says APA will not negotiate anything until single carrier status. Please post the link to the documents that state such.

Second. I guess We should reward you for giving us our payroll? You took that out of your own pocket and made sure we had a pay check to cash, didn't your? We' have been round and round with this, and that money certainly didn't come from AWA. It came from outside sources, which I doubt you made the phone calls to bring the cash in.

In addition, for YEARS you have attempted to rub our noses into our LOA 93 (which was modeled after YOUR PAY SCALES) and the fact that you held the hand that kept us at those wages. YOU could have argued to pay us equally, BUT YOU decided punishment was in order. That YOU would show the east they should have simply taken the NIC as their savior and given everything to you.

Now you have '99 or even '08 hires on the 330, making just a few dollars less an hour than you. Are you upset at that? Are you upset at the fact that your West f/o's could have bid into those positions and gotten a 30k or so pay raise from what they are making now? Instead, furloughed or even guys not even hired prior to this train wreck are making that money.

WD again. YOU have not been correct on ANYTHING you have contemplated on the web boards, YOU have been wrong, YOU have yet to learn your life LESSON SON................

the lesson, you can not predict the future, and you certainly do not have the legal mind to interpret the legalities of what is in front of you....

So now SON, just sit back and watch......