Maverick

At Eagle we are in the middle of a grievance for Eagle/Enovy restricting the flow of our guys to new hire positions at AA. One of the possible solutions proposed and agreeable to 3 out of the 4 parties is just to give AA seniority numbers to the group of 824 pilots part of the last grievance. However it is APA that is the only group unwilling to move forward with this. Other than you guys wanting to get your squadron buddies hired, what is the problem with granting seniority numbers to the bottom of the list for the 824 guys that will be at AA no matter what eventually. It protects fellow AAG pilots from taking even more of a hit with career progression instead of some GO-Jet mesa Skywest PSA ... pilot getting hired as part of the 50/50 ratio which is not happening for us currently so we are losing even more seniority than we already have. Just to give you guys an idea that the bottom of that 824 if they continue to restrict it to 20/month instead of 50% and AA increase class size up to 60 and US airways continues to hire that pilot could end up over 800 numbers junior than where he should have been had the company honored the 50% ratio. That has a huge impact on QOL and career earning. All the 824 guys will have been part of AMR for over 15 years by the time they flow, every single one of them. So why is APA against this?

Enterprise

Can't you call your LEC chair and get the answers you are seeking?

Maverick

I'm putting this out there because the APA pilots I talk to say they are all for it and say they thought their MEC was as well. So this is a case of rank and file not knowing the position of their MEC. If the Amerucan pilots are truly supportive if the Eagle guys then contacting APA's MEC and asking for answers may go along way. I believe the real background is APA is willing but they are wanting the EMB-175 brought back to the mainline.

bassslayer

Something similar should be in effect at PSA. Those guys are interviewing, being offered actual class dates, but are now being held by PSA due to staffing. Airways is running 2 classes a month, plus with AA hiring, those guys/gals are losing tons of seniority.

Two-percent

Wow, 50 percent of AA classes are supposed to consist of Eagle-flos?
Not good with public math: By what year would the last Eagle flow? Do some of the 824 apply to other carriers? Can an 824 apply outside of the original agreement to say, Airways and AA?

drinksonme

I doubt this is the reason. Totally speculating here, but this an SLI and DFR issue in my opinion. Giving the 824 Eagle/Envoy pilots a seniority number today, opens up Pandora's Box tomorrow. How would they be ranked on the new list as they come over if given a number today? In front of all pilots hired tomorrow and beyond at AA/US, not just an AMR (formally) company? Imagine the last 824 person coming over in 5 years, but then going ahead of all pilot in class before them over the last 5 years, that would be an ugly dispute for APA. While I agree that the hold back of Eagle/Envoy pilots is flat out wrong, and probably calculated as punishment for rejecting the API, a seniority number only created another sub-set of pilots who require representation during SLI. Having to deal with USAPA is APA's biggest issue today. I know that sounds harsh, but after USAPA's actions, APA has to stay focused on the SLI, the requirements of the MOU and MB, arguing their case in a lawsuit as of yesterday, the NMB, and ultimately Single Carrier Status. That's a lot of relevant pressing issues today. Any further issue are put to the back burner, including the plight of Eagle/Envoy pilots.

Saabs

Don't forget everyone who has a kid or friend they want to get hired. I know that alone leaves giving the envoy pilots numbers a bad taste in the American guys mouths. And is it 50% of the new American classes post integration? That's already a ton of envoy guys per year.
Not saying I'm against it, just saying I don't think it will happen.

Enterprise

You are getting warmer.

Keeping the 175's at Eagle gives the company every reason in the world not to flow you up to mainline. Who will they replace you with if you flow? Wouldn't you rather be flying the 175 at mainline rather than Eagle?

sailingfun

This is not really a APA decision. It is a management decision. They maintain the seniority list not the union. What does management say?

chignutsak

APA would like the aircraft for sure - the pilots, not so much. The majors have plenty of willing bodies and don't need a flow. As already stated, there is a mess SLI-wise to iron out.