+1 and the medical insurance is crap! Going back to my wife's company plan... The pilot and FA dental doesn't even cover cleanings.

Whoa Whoa whoa guys, ya gotta understand how things work around here. You see, it's the AA way and there really isn't a better way to do things but the way the have been doing it for years. They know best..........

Yes I gag more and more at the things I see coming down towards us. And I thought we had a ****ty deal

Wow! This is the same message RLC used in the 1980's to get APA to accept Eagle flying. Come on guys please look at your history. This old saw has been around for over 3 decades yet we still have pilots who will drink this Kool-Aid. Pilots are indeed their own worst enemy. Return to the original scope: "If it flies and brings revenue to AMR(?) a pilot from the APA seniority list will perform the flying." This is all the scope clause needed by any and all pilot groups.

Some thread drift...and I'll probably get massive amounts of flak for this, but if one is capable working after four years, they probably ought to start working again in a different area. I couldn't see myself collecting disability indefinitely, for an issue that prevents me from flying, but doesn't prevent me from working. I wouldn't be able to look myself in the mirror; I want to be a producer. Again, I'm talking about an otherwise fully able bodied person here.

There is no free lunch on this, LTD costs money and has to be accounted for by a reduction elsewhere in the contract.

I agree. If I lose my medical, I'll spend some time trying to see if I can get it back but at some point I'd move on. I got my masters degree in adult education specifically so I could teach in a simulator program as a "Plan B".

I thought LTD lasted until you are 65? I thought it was offset after a certain number of years by other income.

On the surface this sounds reasonable (and admirable). Scratching a bit deeper can reveal problems though. Ask many out there who have been existing unemployed or under-employed for extended periods of time despite maximum effort how easy it is to find employment that matched a previously well compensating job or career. Perhaps, if you're still in your thirties when you lose your medical, you're more employable (how many that young do, anyway), but the fact is those most likely to use or need this will be in their highest earning years of their airline pilot career coupled concurrently with their least attractiveness to outside employers due to their age. It's usually a double-whammy. The fact is this situation can result in the loss of houses and the cancellation or alteration of college attendance by children among other life-altering by-products.

I'm not advocating being a deadbeat or parasite, but this was previously a negotiated benefit that most never needed, but those who did, REALLY did. Considering most mainline pilots pensions have been essentially wiped out to the tune of between 60-80% and then in their mid or later 50's they find themselves in the 4 year LTD window with medical (and/or other) expenses eating most of that up and then 4 years later little or nothing left for assistance, it's a sobering position to recover from that. Finding another $150-200,000/year job isn't as easy as it sounds. I'm sure those younger either think this situation couldn't happen to them or they'd certainly be able to recover financially to pre-career financial footing, but ask someone needing it now 20 years older and I'm sure you'll get a different perspective.

Again, I certainly hope you don't experience this hideously diluted benefit, but if the company believes that after 4 years you can hold a mop at McDonalds or sit in a chair at a Walmart entrance and smile, you're good to be kicked to the curb. Every AA pilot should be saving 25% of their income unless they have a sure-fire dead-bang back-up that pays as well as what they lost. Depending on the medical issue itself, they may not be possible even if you do and everyone knows most employers will avoid saddling themselves with a 50-something worker with significant health problems.

Personally, I think you should reevaluate just how critical this lost benefit really was.

.........:eek:

So apparently I misunderstood how LTD works.. I thought it was good until age 65 unless furloughed for up to 60% of your salary with a max benefit of $8000/month. Offset after 48 months by earned income, social security or workers comp. if unable to work after 48 months, you would still receive the benefit minus offsets from social security. This isnt correct?

Eaglefly,

fair points, I hadn't thought of some of that.