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-   -   Industry Leading without Profit Sharing?? (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/american/84063-industry-leading-without-profit-sharing.html)

Papasiera 09-28-2014 06:38 AM

Me either!

DarinFred 09-28-2014 06:44 AM

I personally think that they need a happy pilot group in order to make the SLI proceed without lawsuits from USAPA and AOL at every step. They can do that with a great contract. Hopefully that is what APA is pushing for. Management will give us a good contract now and try to take stuff after the merger is complete.

Skubajet 09-28-2014 08:14 AM


Originally Posted by Flyin the Flag (Post 1735919)
Scot Kirby in DFW said that the company is willing to offer meaningfully more economic value then the MOU calls for and do it quicker. More days off? More money? We will see. and give up what? Scope. be careful!

Kirby and Parker specifically said they would like to pay us MORE than our competitors at UA and DL but no profit sharing? How much more? Hopefully APA thinks big picture and gets us improvements in soft work rules as well.

Also, what happens when DL gets a new contract in 2015/16?

bassslayer 09-28-2014 10:00 AM


Originally Posted by Skubajet (Post 1736003)
Kirby and Parker specifically said they would like to pay us MORE than our competitors at UA and DL but no profit sharing? How much more? Hopefully APA thinks big picture and gets us improvements in soft work rules as well.

Also, what happens when DL gets a new contract in 2015/16?


Probably nothing will happen then. Thats why they want to lock us in now. That fact that this management team is saying "not only do we want to give you more than we have to, but we want to do it sooner than we have to" should be a real red flag to everyone. Parker and Kirby don't just give things to people because they are swell human beings.

Listening to Kirby in the crew news explain how more seats in RJ's adds pilot jobs to the mainline and how if it weren't for RJ's ORD wouldnt even be a crew base anymore for AA was interesting to say the least.

PilotJ3 09-28-2014 11:06 AM



Originally Posted by Skubajet (Post 1736003)
Kirby and Parker specifically said they would like to pay us MORE than our competitors at UA and DL but no profit sharing? How much more? Hopefully APA thinks big picture and gets us improvements in soft work rules as well.

Also, what happens when DL gets a new contract in 2015/16?


Probably nothing will happen then. Thats why they want to lock us in now. That fact that this management team is saying "not only do we want to give you more than we have to, but we want to do it sooner than we have to" should be a real red flag to everyone. Parker and Kirby don't just give things to people because they are swell human beings.

Listening to Kirby in the crew news explain how more seats in RJ's adds pilot jobs to the mainline and how if it weren't for RJ's ORD wouldnt even be a crew base anymore for AA was interesting to say the least.
Sure and how he wants to do the WO RJs the only path to AA.

Less flying at AA, more flying at regional with the illusion of flow. I know AA pay is not like it used to be, but do to give away scope to these clowns!!!

satpak77 09-28-2014 11:19 AM


Originally Posted by morecowbell (Post 1731243)
The company is on the verge of presenting the counter proposal for compensation, and apparently Scott Kirby says he will throw us "industry leading" pay, but no profit sharing.

How can our pay be industry leading without profit sharing. This is complete crap. Scott...keep dreaming you big goon. Give us more per hour pay, yet every year Delta still takes home more with the addition of profit sharing to the bottom line? Show me increased hourly pay and profit sharing and I'll show you industry leading pay.

Also, seems he is more then willing to fall back on the arbitrated JCBA agreement if we cant come to terms according to his remarks at the Morgan Stanley Conference this past week.

And the biggest concern (at least it should be to the bottom 75% of us) is the company's request for scope concessions.

:mad:

I am an outsider looking in, but most of the legacies have profit sharing as part of their pay/benefits packages, why would AA decide to go against the grain ? If you want to attract top quality folks, you need to have similar programs in place

Delta Air Lines gives employees highest-ever profit-sharing | Star Tribune

Southwest Airlines says profit sharing will reach $228 million in 2014 | Dallas Morning News

Airline Profits Will Drive 2015 Pilot Contract Talks - Businessweek

I wonder if the goal to eliminate profit sharing will be accomplished, me thinks "no". Too many arguments from a HR standpoint/etc to keep it.

AA was "on the right track" with the new turnaround, new image, morale re-building, I hope they don't muck it all up now

kingairip 09-28-2014 02:32 PM


Originally Posted by satpak77 (Post 1736097)
I am an outsider looking in, but most of the legacies have profit sharing as part of their pay/benefits packages, why would AA decide to go against the grain ? If you want to attract top quality folks, you need to have similar programs in place

I wonder if the goal to eliminate profit sharing will be accomplished, me thinks "no". Too many arguments from a HR standpoint/etc to keep it.

AA was "on the right track" with the new turnaround, new image, morale re-building, I hope they don't muck it all up now

According to Parker, profit sharing is not a good way to compensate employees. He believes that employees do not value it and it costs the company a lot of money. Also, he said "good companies do not pay profit sharing" or words to that effect. He says you don't see profit sharing in any other industry except auto manufacturing (which are historically poorly run.) He's on record as saying he wants to pay us more than our peers on a per hour basis to make up for the lack of profit sharing. He thinks we can reach an agreement that makes up for the lack of profit sharing with a higher dollar per hour figure...he thinks the employees will like that better and it will be cheaper for the company. We'll see just how much more he's willing to pay us...this JCBA goes to arbitration on October 16th (I think?)

Not sure what you mean by this "I wonder if the goal to eliminate profit sharing will be accomplished." AA pilots don't have any profit sharing right now. It's already gone.

satpak77 09-28-2014 02:47 PM


Originally Posted by kingairip (Post 1736194)
According to Parker, profit sharing is not a good way to compensate employees. He believes that employees do not value it and it costs the company a lot of money. Also, he said "good companies do not pay profit sharing" or words to that effect. He says you don't see profit sharing in any other industry except auto manufacturing (which are historically poorly run.) He's on record as saying he wants to pay us more than our peers on a per hour basis to make up for the lack of profit sharing. He thinks we can reach an agreement that makes up for the lack of profit sharing with a higher dollar per hour figure...he thinks the employees will like that better and it will be cheaper for the company. We'll see just how much more he's willing to pay us...this JCBA goes to arbitration on October 16th (I think?)

Not sure what you mean by this "I wonder if the goal to eliminate profit sharing will be accomplished." AA pilots don't have any profit sharing right now. It's already gone.

OK, I thought you had it. My mistake.

Re: comments above, see this link, and #2. Maybe Parker needs to hit Google...

The Twelve Attributes of a Truly Great Place to Work - Tony Schwartz - Harvard Business Review

R57 relay 09-28-2014 03:35 PM


Originally Posted by bassslayer (Post 1736047)
That fact that this management team is saying "not only do we want to give you more than we have to, but we want to do it sooner than we have to" should be a real red flag to everyone. Parker and Kirby don't just give things to people because they are swell human beings.

You learn fast grasshopper!:)

Just remember, while Parker is stroking us, Hemmingway is standing behind us.

kingairip 09-28-2014 05:34 PM


Originally Posted by satpak77 (Post 1736207)
OK, I thought you had it. My mistake.

Re: comments above, see this link, and #2. Maybe Parker needs to hit Google...

The Twelve Attributes of a Truly Great Place to Work - Tony Schwartz - Harvard Business Review

US Airways pilots had it. The APA gave it away in their bankruptcy.

Re: the blog. I don't think Parker spends a lot of time reading blogs on the Internet.

Hey...I'm fine with getting a little extra in pay instead of profit sharing. As long as the management understands that the Delta guys are getting, essentially, an extra month's pay every year. That means we need Delta + 8% just to be even with those guys.


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