Originally Posted by inline five (Post 1799150)

I've explained what it means. I can't make you read or understand it.

Originally Posted by eaglefly (Post 1799048)

My tenure in the airline industry appears to pre-date yours slightly and all of it has been associated with AMR/AAG, so I too have the opportunity to learn a thing or two in over a quarter of a century here. Of course, no one can predict the future, but one can quantify the past and present. In OUR situation, it is clear we will have less benefits and work rules to once again trade for pay, but you can be sure if most are willing to do that now with less risk, 2020 will be a given.

If you question that, might I suggest you review the labor history here at AA ?

Originally Posted by Sliceback (Post 1799228)

Are we trying to get AE's history or AA's and APA's history?

Originally Posted by Sliceback (Post 1799228)

When did you start at AE? AA?

Originally Posted by Sliceback (Post 1799228)

What's your 2020 plan is we go to arbitration?

Originally Posted by Sliceback (Post 1799228)

What's your 2020 plan if we approve the TA?

Originally Posted by Sliceback (Post 1799228)

Are we trying to get AE's history or AA's and APA's history?

When did you start at AE? AA?

What's your 2020 plan is we go to arbitration?

What's your 2020 plan if we approve the TA?

Originally Posted by Sliceback (Post 1799228)

Are we trying to get AE's history or AA's and APA's history?

When did you start at AE? AA?

What's your 2020 plan is we go to arbitration?

What's your 2020 plan if we approve the TA?

Originally Posted by eaglefly (Post 1799280)

The history of APA/AA pilots. It's a sobering litany of missteps and failures. The B-scale, the RJ debacle/flow-thru, the 3-minute strike and multimillion dollar fine, 2003, the 7300 floor, the sloppy, wet kiss to Parker. One doesn't have to work here to identify that.



Irrelevant, but mid-late 1980's and prior to our Chapter 11.



Advocate that all reps and pilots join together and become unified in defending the Green Book. Sadly, should this be rejected there will be pilots that actually will work on behalf of Parker to reconstitute a bad deal. You see them on C & R, here and even on the BOD.



Why, join the majority of course and embrace capitulation for self-interest !

At that point thinking 2020 will be any different the above disasters or this disaster (yet again) is fantasy as there is no cohesive group or weapons of leverage left. No one could blame me as I'll be acting no differently then many here and I'll have plenty of company just as the yes voters do this time too.

If you can't beat em, join 'em ! ;)

Originally Posted by ghilis101 (Post 1799375)

The plan is if you vote no you have a good chance of getting get Last Best Final Offer 4 with the long rig/calendar day. If you end up going to arbitration, the cost neutral requirement will mean the money the company saves by combining dom/intl and removing hbt will have to be traded for improvements for the pilot group, the most obvious solution being min calendar day or the long rig. This amounts to less days worked, and more opportunities for you to make money on premium pay, which is how DAL and UAL pilots make their money (and profit sharing which admittedly is a lost cause this time around). The company will have to provide economic data for dom/intl consolidation and hbt to the arbitrator.

Originally Posted by Route66 (Post 1799389)

I was like you before the MOU. But after the MOU it was over. So it really is all a matter of timing, isn't it?

I'm the anti-christ yet you admit you'll do the same thing if the rank and file vote yes. Welcome to the dark side.

Originally Posted by eaglefly (Post 1799474)

It's not over and as long as we are still relevant, I'm onboard 100% (although many involved in this aren't :(). Once we become irrelevant, my stance will have nothing to do with being "anti-union" per se like you are, it's just at that point with nothing left of value to bargain with (except scope) and a clearly (and hopelessly) fragmented group there simply isn't anything TO support.

Your position (and let's face it, the MOU is just your presently convenient excuse) is one of hatred, retaliation and attack, whereas mine will revert to one of disinterest and the avoidance of pointlessly expending energy in pursuit of the futile and the resignation that since individual self-interest is apparently the preferred philosophy, I may as well maximize my personal interests in accordance with the majority of the group.

Nice try, but I'll never be on your "dark side".

Originally Posted by psw757 (Post 1799424)

You keep bringing up premium pay. Do you know how our premium pay system works? It's a total sham, nothing like Delta or even Spirit for that matter where it is common place to credit anywhere from 100-115 hours while actually only working around 80.

It's a sham because there are very very rarely any premium trips available because we are so fat on reserves and block holders typically grab trips off the daily bid sheet minimizing open time. The language just doesn't exist to allow for significant earnings from premium flying, another let down in our current contract.

Originally Posted by Route66 (Post 1799534)

Welcome to anti-unionism. Define it how you want to justify your position.