My first suspicion was the rush job that was being put on this in the first place. Im glad you guys figured it out; it was to beat the Delta earnings call scheduled for I think January 23rd. So rushed in fact that the language hadn't been completed, a tell-tale sign that they were either not expecting you to really accept it, or that they are not ready for arbitration. You have been given a gift with this recent information. Im proud of your group for standing up for whats right.

yes voters - ask for the deadline to be extended past January 23rd... get additional information on the state of the industry to get a feel for what your options are.

You are correct, but to expect management do boys or flat out idiots to actually think about anything else when they can see a shiny object is asking for a miracle. The only hope is pilots with a backbone and half a brain to see through the so painfully obvious tactics that management is once again using to hoodwink the group. For cripes sake they did the same thing to us almost exactly two years ago with the MOU, deadlines and all!:confused:

Excellent analysis of our current situation. Arbitrary rush to decision without the contract language is Glass' MO! Vote NO!!!

All standard union-busting techniques. That's why Jerry Glass is spearheading Parker's assault on New AA pilots. To bust a "union", you must fragment the leadership thus invalidating them and then fragment the membership by turning segments of them both against themselves and the leadership.

So far, it's worked masterfully.

This NO ONE can deny. :(

You need to lay off the union conference calls.

Wiser: Getting Beyond Groupthink to Make Groups Smarter: Cass R. Sunstein, Reid Hastie: 9781422122990: Amazon.com: Books

A quote from the author

"When hardliners are presented with empirical data their position gets further entrenched regardless of the logical nature of their decision."

It's a pretty interesting book. The union leadership could learn a lot from reading it. Every time I hear a union meeting and the talking that goes on, I think of that book.

The company knows what we'll do before we do it. They employ a lot of smart people. The union leadership relies on simple things like flying safely to bully their positions. Not a very effective long term method IMO. Insert "Pen being mightier than the sword" cliché.

do you really believe the APA proposal to accept and immediately ratify the current proposal if it included the AWA long rig was a hard line stance? What the BOD did there was an incredibly fair compromise that would have been a win for the company and a decent draw for you. Instead, the company took the hardline stance, is circumventing the BOD and going to direct to you. Its in your hands. I for one think that they are throwing out one last shot at you, and if you vote no youll get the long rig, similar to min calendar day. They've already made a series of mistakes (incomplete language coupled with an unreasonable ultimatum) that will hurt them if this goes to arbitration, even if the arbitrator is pro company.

Well, perhaps it's time to send a new message to the company that they no longer can predict and thus control us ? If we vote in this TA nothing changes and nothing WILL change in 2020.

I'm sorry, but you stray too far from JUST being a self-convinced yes voter with posts like this and quite frankly I suspect you're doing the biding for others here. Unionbuster66 is and it wouldn't surprise me if you were the same person, just with different personas, because with posts like this it's tough to tell a difference.

...and please spare me any "tinfoil hat" nonsense. That's the usual safe haven when people say what you say here and may be exposed for what they really are.

No I dont. I think the APA's insistence to well overshoot each time was a major part in the company acting like it did however. The company showed the APA who was running the show this time around.

It's a mental game and the union using uneducated highly emotional tactics will lose every time.

My comment about the hardliners here is about this latest proposal and their reasoning for voting no.

The APA was still feeling the rush of their "negotiations" in bankruptcy court when in fact the UCC was running the show and wanted the deal to go through. It was a temporary high, as they came to find out.

With industry standard proposals, and the company's tremendous financial health and positive economic outlook, the APA offer was still less than Deltas 2012 contract, not to mention it's spread out over 2,000 more pilots (AAs 15000, versus DAL having 13000 pilots). It was not unreasonable. This final APA counterproposal is still more than $700 million below Delta 2012 contract.

Glass orchestrated the same stunt at Envoy. In one instance they abruptly severed negotiations over a single word in an ALPA email. It was simply strategy. They are making us play their game and that needs to stop. If we don't stop it this time, were done for in 2020 as we'll be bankrupt of harvestable value with the exception of scope.

If Parker goes not need or want that, he'll just kick the can for 5 years which is common.