I guess your point is that inline is biased by his previous experience or lack of. Fair enough, but aren't we all? Your tag line indicates that you were furloughed. Doesn't that affect your POV, and rightly so?

We shouldn't chase the shiney nickel to the exclusion of everything else, but the shiny nickel is why 99.9% of us are here. I don't do this for fun anymore. This decision, like life, is a balance.

I have a friend that is a definite NO voter. He doesn't insult when I raise a point, and acknowledges when I make a good one. I do the same with him, and so his POV is one that I really listen to. He has some great points, with the Obama care provision being one of the best and one of my biggest concerns.

My F/O the other day is truly torn by this. Reading everything possible. He said "I want the money, but I don't want my contract gutted!" I asked him what would change with his lifestyle on the 30th if we voted this in on the 29th. He couldn't answer. I pointed out that his contract started the gutting way before he was hired in '99, starting with the give of our duty rigs in '91 or '92 for Delta's pay rates. Funny, Delta is gold standard now, but following them on the rigs and RJs hasn't worked too well for us!

Let's remove the fear and BS that seems to be flowing from this. Let's look at the facts when we get them, add up the pros and cons and make a decision.

I'm a poolie like ghillis and I can honestly say I couldn't agree more with his posts. Extending the contract and giving up any work rules at all is a terrible mistake. I understand that many see these rules as very minor, yet they truly are all that we have left. Our only bargaining power besides scope.

I was one of the last interviews in September and I've seen a disturbing amount of poolies jump ship and go to Delta or United et al. I'd say at least three in our group have decided to go another direction. Many even say that until they are off of probation, they will take any other offer that comes along. The luster of AA just isn't there. And to pay much less money the first year? It's funny how that extra 30-35 bucks would help incredibly but I am starting a 25 year career and fear what it would do to us in the long run regarding work rules.

It's really sad...has AAG factored in the loss of decent recruits and ability to get Tier 1 pilots? I'm excited for the opportunity, of course (freight background, non-regional), but common sense prevails. I hope some are aware that in this job market, QOL will prevail and I'm tired of being away from my family. Option 1 of 40/hour starting pay is not attractive. Option 2 of ~73/hour but a loss in work rules is not attractive. Option 3 of ~73/hr and min calendar day would attract and RETAIN a fantastic amount of new-hires. Don't forget that some Delta guys are crediting 100+ hours a month on easy months...

Anyway just my 2 cents. All of us want AA to be a better place to work. It starts by getting a good contract and good blood.

There are others that will take the job. Good luck with your career.

As someone pointed out on another thread, there are so many unknowns that really cloud the best path forward.

Going to arbitration does not guarantee that we will keep Dom/int separate or not have hbt implemented. Although the more likely scenario imho is the arbitrationruling will combine the ops because it is how US has operated for quite a while now so I do think that will come into play which will really **** everyone off. The only certain in arbitration is no pay. APA cannot confirm or deny whether or not the company can get that in arbitration and that says a lot in my book.

I honestly don't know what the best path forward is, it could potentially be a lose/lose situation if the arbitration isn't in our favor. I have been through a couple major arbitration sin the past and they never seem to go exactly the way you expect it to and always lead disappointment.

Parker has no incentive to deal as long as the shackles of RLA remain the law of the land. Face it, you guys have zilch bargaining power. Even the Viagra hucksters on TV are required to read the fine print. The new AA will survive--- but with no soul, just a place to put in your time and get out. Carry on, gentlemen.

Royals,
Look one thread down, there are clamoring pilots eager to join the AA ranks all the time. Even when AA had the B scale wage system, pilots signed up in droves all the while complaining about the B scale.

The bottom line is that's why there is a union, because quite honestly many/most line pilots are too ill informed, gullible and blinded by quick cash to see the forest from the trees when it comes to contract negotiations.

I'm going to go out on a limb here with this one but I don't think the majority of the yes voters are necessarily blinded by the quick cash.

I think that since there is a huge uncertainty of what will actually happen in arbitration such as the possibility of the dom and intl being combined anyway which a lot of AA folks are pretty adamant about not giving up and also no pay as well or any other improvements it is simply the lesser of two evils in their minds.

If the APA or lawyer etc..... Actually stood up and said any of the items that you are hoping to retain in arbitration very well may end up being lost anyway what would be the point of saying no then? We would be that much farther behind in pay in 2018-2020 and still have no leverage for any work rule improvements either since the arbitrator could take them away in some fashion.

I don't think everything is on the table in arbitration but I could see them combing the ops which could reduce jobs. The company then probably wouldn't get the hbt they want which the APA is now claiming should create 350 wide body jobs.

Again, I have no idea what the correct answer is, really need to see what kind of info APA decides they want to feed us before the vote.

As for the poolie trying to decide to join AA, if your at Delta or United already stay there unless you would be living in base at AA. If your at a regional or some other carrier there really isn't much of a decision.

Good luck!

Negotiating 101:

If you need an answer now, the answer is "no", simple. When you offer enough to earn a "yes" then and only then do you get a "yes".

This isn't complicated. They have $7B in profits and they want to buy cheap. Do not sell the "yes" cheap.

I think a couple of you guys since you know so much about economics, union politics and the industry as whole ought to step up to the plate and get involved with the union to represent the pilots.

Heck you guys know exactly how the company is going to be run for the next 10 years, have a friggin plan for everything and seem to have an answer about everything, your constituents would love that.

APA is a clown show so far in my opinion, they were the ones that were sold by quick cash. They could have asked to keep the MTA pay rates and only work on improving work rules and what did they do? Blinded by quick cash and overreached on everything.

Oh and Negotiating 101:

You should know better, you never ever get all of your asks otherwise it wouldn't be a negotiation. Let's not be naieve.