This was about unity. I have nothing but respect for those who cannot be bought.

Some bases were much worse offenders than others, and I'm sorry to report that CLT was the worst offender that I've seen. I haven't looked at every base though. MIA and LGA seemed pretty good about it.

Hopefully the APA will put out a report.

I've always thought that what will make this a unified group is retiring some of these old guys who are completely out of touch with the bottom 80% of the seniority list. Unfortunately, I don't think enough will be gone by 2020. In fact in 2020 we'll have 3,000+ who will be voting on their last contract (including SB) and they will only care about the pay rates.

Maybe in 2024 there will be hope, but I'm not convinced of that yet either.

Absolutely not a bandwagon guy but this kinda sums it up.

OK, this is a bit out of hand. You don't know Slice's particulars and you aren't in his shoes, so it's cheap to sling mud the way some of you have been. We are not lemmings ... our job is not to obey directives from the APA. It is APA's responsibility to construct well-thought-out strategies and convince us of their merit. In this case, they did a decent job of illustrating how PBS changes the landscape in ways which merited a re-think on the part of floaters. If they'd made a better case, with more analysis, maybe more people would have chosen not to float.

I didn't float, but it didn't cost me much. I'm a SC guy with 19 VC days in '17/'18 due to some PVDs. I have to bid VAC to get decent time off given the SC bid sheets, so I was going to float 5 days. Floating zero cost me, what, $2700? If I was a line-holder with 31 or more days in play on a CA salary ... who's to say if I would have found the APA's proposal as compelling?

Slice contributes far more than most by spending time on here answering questions and mentoring newer pilots. He is NOT the guy you should be sh*tt*ng on. Get some perspective. Show some class. (BTW everyone should read Billyray's blast on this topic)

I'm good. Slice showed his true colors. He can now listen to people berate him for selling us out.

Dudes gonna make 400k this year. I could care less about his personal situation (except extreme medical cases which he didn't say was the case/he wanted the money).

All he does for new hires is tell them they'd be more senior at AA so they should come here. Big f'ing deal. Thx slice!!

I wish I was in his Group 4 captain shoes, just sayin.

I would like to see new standardized pay rates with every group paying the same. Narrow body guys get raises while widebody comes down. This would bring unity back to the union. With so many senior guys saying FU it could be a coup with most on property getting raises.

Whatever you are smokin, stop it. You will get tested one day.

I agree. Except the widebody pay shouldn't come down, narrowbody pay should increase to match it. But I'll settle for an average of group 3 and group 4 pay. The widebody guys would sh*t themselves.

LIKE! LIKE! LIKE!

Sliceback is a jerk Mr 30,000 C & R posts most of which were ridiculous.

Always claiming he has friends on the BOD and tries to imply he know the BOD's every move.

7576

any new hire assigned sliceback for mentor, please contact me.
He has proven he is not a loyal union memeber.

Contact me here and i will gladly do your newhire orientation or mentoring.

If you want good mentoring from a loyal union member then please pm me here.

I will help you in anyway i can.

7576fo

The reason unions and its members are constantly run over by management. We all want to be part time unionist but full time complainers about how union leaders never achieve anything. We receive a 35 - 50% pay raise over the past three years yet we still try to rationalize why we won't follow our union leaders' request.

Is it really any wonder to any of you why management only gives the absolute minimum on everything?

Final awards out on aapilots

I didn't float this year per Carey. Zero days. I floated 10 last year so this will help demonstrate to management that at least 75% of the pilot group will listen to the union. And I actually got decent weeks off the first two rounds so I think having the extra weeks in the pool helped. My last two rounds were the usual Jan/Feb leftovers but hey, PHX is nice that time of year and its two weeks I won't be commuting to JFK.

There are always excuses to not do something. When you need to send a message to management then you'd best be thinking of the group, not yourself. The APA did a horrible job getting this message out but it should be obvious to everyone that Parker needs to know that we can act in unity. Management will get away with what ever they can. It's up to the union to show management there are limits. And it's up to the pilots to support the union. Otherwise we are 15000 freelance contractors and that's not going to do anyone any good.

Nice work and spot on analysis.

Commuting to JFK? Did a westie bid 777 captain?!??

7576fo,
Just slow down for one minute, Slice has helped more new hires and potential new hires over the last 18 months than anyone I know. I personally was hired Jan 15 and he answered every single question I had and even let me call him if needed. He didnt even know me!

Maybe he did float some leave but we all have our reasons but it doesn't change the fact that he is here to help all new hires. Slice has been at AA for 25+ years and gets nothing out of helping us. He does it because he is a great guy.
Let's not bash him because he floated. The emails were slow to come out and get disseminated to all. Plus some guys have really good reasons they needed to float, like medical reasons.
Yes we all need to come together as one, yes we need to listen to our Union, yes we need to stop attacking each other and focus our energies on a new contract in 2019.
7576fo I standby you moving forward but let's not bite the hand that helps new hires over what you perceive to be a direct action against the union. We honestly don't know all the circumstances. Just saying...

Cactus,

Your spot on. Many pilots don't understand that it's the unity that will get us where we need to be.

I agree the message from APA was a little late in coming and it was sporadic. I believe it was mainly due to Carey finally standing up and leading by doing something while the BOD was flailing internally on coming to a decision. It has been said Carey put out his message without the BOD first formally taking that policy position.
Not sure that's true.

Regardless, he did something. And as you wrote we as union members need to support our leadership. If we don't we will never achieve anything.

Thanks for not floating. It's through these actions we become stronger and more unified as a group and hopefully all start looking at each other as one.

How would we know he was our mentor? Initials?

Who cares? You complain about being paid less than your peers and then you throw out comments like that intended to divide the pilot group. Is that going to help everyone get a DAL+ contract?

I've been mentoring since 2007. When we first started recalling.

I expect more form a well informed 900 seniority 777 CA whom is so involved in our union message board yet ALWAYS finds himself on the wrong side of the discussion.

Selfish is the only word I can use to describe Sliceback.

A 900 sen # CA should know better.

7576FO

How is that trying to divide the pilot group? I was curious/happy for him. So F off.

Just happy to see guys getting the opportunity to move around.

F*ck slice. He specifically said he floated for the money. He can deal with the flack. He's a big boy.

How hard is it to mentor a new hire? It's not like he did anything miraculous no one else has already done. Plenty of us would be willing to mentor.

Ummm... you are usually the voice of reason and optimism on here and I appreciate it. And agree with fact that we don't know everyone's individual situation, so not fair to always throw rocks...

But, as for Slice, he straight up said it. It was a "ponzi scheme" and he did math and wants the $.

Glad he helped you and others, good on him. There are many volunteers in the Compass Project though, myself included. And we all help new hires. But on this issue, he only cared about himself and union be damned. I, like many others, I could have benefited from floating also. But our Union asked and 75% of us acted in unity. Slice... not so much.

Yes,

There are nuances that need to passed to a new hire, especially former military. It's important that they are mentored correctly, regarding union vs management issues. And yes, I was/am military, I had no mentor here, but asked Captains a ton of questions.

Floated 14 days last year, 0 this year. Already planning our vacations out.

You don't seem happy about anything from the bulk of your posts so I assumed it was intended to stoke the flames. My mistake. You must be a real pleasure to fly with.

I am awesome to fly with. Take my word for it[emoji851]

Me not living in a fantasy land and understanding the issues facing our pilot group does not make me unhappy. It makes me educated.

I didn't float. I had to bid the first week in Dec to make sure I got off for my step-daughter's wedding, so thought my years vacation was shot. Not so. I got that, 1 week in April, 1 Sept and 1 Oct. Would have liked one in June, but no real biggie. Otherwise I got what I wanted and glad that I will be off more, unlike 2016 when I couldn't drop much and mostly got paid extra for the float.

Did the no float help me get the dates I wanted? I don't know, but many did not float as asked and I'll take that as a win. One we needed.

As for Slice-I understand the frustration, he's made me hit my head against the wall a few times on C&R. But my wife does too and I don't want to throw her out. I don't think he is the kind to be won over by throwing rocks at him. He is very fact/data driven and I think he will look at how this worked and make his own decision on whether his action was a good idea or not. But he has provided a lot of info. on here and C&R.

Here's something I don't understand. There was a guy on C&R proudly proclaiming his no float. He says he doesn't pick up straight time just premium. I don't get that. If we wanted to make a statement, it seems that not flying premium would be the greatest statement we could make. We are paid for our time, and when the company offers premium, not flying it would make the biggest statement. "AA, it's not worth my time..."

Pilots, like most people, will proclaim how what they want to do is the greatest. I'm as guilty as anyone. But float is far from the greatest whoring out there.

Thoughts?

With regards to slice it doesn't matter what conclusion he came to or what he bases his decision on. We need to unite and he was flat out asked to do something and decided not to. If he never comes back I'll take over his spot as the de facto new hire info guy[emoji87]

I get the not picking up straight time argument. If no one picked anything up at straight time then we would obviously need more pilots or they'd have to offer more premium.

The fact is the union didn't tell us not to pick up straight time (they can't legally). But they did ask us not to float. So sounds like that guy is just trying to justify his decision to float.

During the months we have vacation and bid reserve does using the 4 VEX days effect the monthly pay at all?

Actually, if we didn't pick up ANY time, that would send the message loud and clear.

If Isom wanted to go after the no float message, I believe he could. I actually don't think the company cares. You remember the summer of love around here? Did you actually read the injunction against USAPA? If not, you should.

It is next to impossible for the union to tell us things in the clear. Pilots have to be willing to do it on their own.

Are we unhappy with our contract? I doubt the company sees that if there is a list for premium a mile long. How unhappy can we be if we are signing up for more, often at times of a bad operation?

No, you will just be squeezing your work into the other days. It's what is important to you. I guess it could constrain PBS in how it builds your block and how much time it squeezes into it.

So on reserve it will just squeeze your reserve days into the month around your vacation and VEX days?

VEX days are just regular OFF days that immediately precede or follow your vacation.

That's the way I understand it. You "owe" the company so many days when you have X vacation days. There was a chart out somewhere that showed how many days you had on call and how much you were paid for each week of vacation under PBS. Maybe on the APA scheduling page?

That's how you get paid more than guaranteed with vacation while on reserve. Your pro rate and vacation days add up to more days than usual.

Haven't been on reserve for a while, might try it this year during Sept to see if I can get most of the month off for 83 or so hours.

VEX days are just OFF days that you control. 4 OFF days that you can put anywhere, in any amount, on either side of vacation (or both sides) as long as they touch vacation. No credit, no pay. If you have 7 days of vacation, you look at prorate chart and depending on 30 or 31 day month, you are on hook for either 15 or 14 days of work. Meaning if you use them, they have to cram the remaining days of work into what's left. Hence, in a 30 day month, you get 11 days in a row (vacation + VEX) and in remaining 19 days you will be in call for 14 of them.

Only time you would be penalized is if you did what I did.... get two separate vacations in same month (each gets own Slide and VEX days). 14 just became 22 OFF, with VEX. But, on a 30 day month, I am on hook for 10 days according to prorate chart, but with contractually having to give me VEX, I am only available 8. Best case, 7 days available due to FAR 117. This could work out well though, because apparently PBS won't solve and you actually just get nothing awarded for month. It is now treated sorta like a hybrid and I can technically get whole month off if I am willing to sacrifice a bit of pay (just get paid for my 51:20 vacation) or i coordinate with scheduling on what days I wanna build back in to increase pay. Good way to get a whole month off...

Proration chart is in contract, CH. 15

Something I just learned today after I posted. It's 4 VEX days PER month. So if both vacation weeks in same month, you only get 4, not 8. Luckily for me, I was able to slide back so extra 4 go in previous month and still tie together for 22. But there goes having less availability than what I owe. Oh well. Just a heads up.

When do you vex? If I have vacation in June, July and Sep when/how do you tell them what you want to do? also I have 4 unawarded days ( not floated). How do I tell them where I want to use them?

VMS..... It's on bottom of main page. You are looking at history. Select scheduled. Little pencils for VEX, Slide, Trade.

Warning: you can only slide once! You have time (it shows closing day for each vacation month under action schedule button). You are in no rush.