Float
 

Stole this. A good read on what Carey was talking about:


These numbers are rounded and simplified for discussion

1. Let's say we have 15,000 active pilots. That represents 780,000 work weeks over the course of one year

2. If those 15,000 pilots each had four weeks of vacation, that is 60,000 weeks of vacation that needs to be bid or 7.7% of the total possible work weeks

3. Conversely, if all pilots take the minimum one week of vacation and float the rest, that would return 45,000 weeks of productivity to the company, which is the equivalent of having an additional 865 pilots on the property. (865 pilots times 52 weeks of work)

4. JCBA Section 9.C.4.b spells out the minimum amount of vacation the company must offer. Each month needs to have at least 5% of the total weeks being bid or at least 2.75% of the total accrued vacation (whether floated or not), whichever is less.

5. This means that if nobody floats vacation, the company has two choices. They can either offer at least 3,000 weeks of vacation per month (5% of 60,000), or if they are tightly manned, they can choose months where they only offer the minimum 2.75% of the accrued vacation, which in this example would be 1,650 weeks.

6. If the company was in a panic and chose to only offer 1,650 weeks during June, July, August and December (6,600 total weeks), they would have to cram the remaining 53,400 weeks of vacation into the remaining eight months of the year, which would mean 6,675 weeks of vacation per month, which would put 10.25% of us on vacation for each of the shoulder months.

7. Forcing a situation where over ten percent of pilots in a bid status are on vacation, combined with the massive number of pilots in training in any given month, puts very real pressures on the company.

8. Now take the same scenario and all pilots float half of their accrued vacation. Instead of 60,000 weeks, there would only be 30,000 weeks to schedule. The 5% requirement would only be 1,500 weeks per month, which is less than the 2.75% minimum of ACCRUED vacation. That means the company would still have to offer at least 1,650 weeks of vacation in the peak months (same as the previous scenario). But that would mean instead of cramming 53,400 weeks of vacation into the shoulder months, the company would only need to accommodate 23,400 weeks in the shoulder months. That is a HUGE difference.

Thanks Al!

I'm not floating. Not all have 4 weeks. Perhaps 1500 only get 1,2 weeks.
The EA flows most get 4 weeks.

If you float you're one of the reasons we are so far behind our peers. Your union is asking you to do something for the greater good. Do it.


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You scared me for a second, and made me check the contract. Year 1 thru 5 get 21 days (to be accrued over the 1st year). So only OTS guys coming off probation year haven't accrued the 21 days yet. Maybe 300 pilots get less than 3 weeks.

Fool us once...

No float! You're gonna pay, AA.... You're gonna pay.

I can't even get this janky website to save my round 1 ballot, which by the way, will have no floated vacation on it.

I'm one of those unfortunately

I really don't this will work the way everybody think it is gonna work.
I am thinking after the first round those in the bottom 1/3 won't get any vacation awarded in rounds 2-3-4 and will be forced to float.


I am gonna wait and see what happens.

You can only float in round 1.

If you're going to float you have to do it in round one.

If you bid in rounds 2-4 you will get awarded a vacation. It might be ugly but you'll bet it.

Just checked an FO bid status for last year's (2016) vacation awards. Second round junior vacations had April and October(plus whatever was available in Round three). Junior guys, and really everyone, got Jan/Feb/Nov/Dec (not the holidays) in round three.

Round one is your best bet. Try using single weeks in your bid.
The best weeks guys typically get in the second round is May, Sept, or April.
Third round is Jan/Feb/early Nov/early Dec. Fourth round is the same.
Only ten percent of the people in the bid status I checked bid all four rounds.

After floating 17 days in 2016 and only being able to drop 2 trips, I wasn't planning on floating anyway.

I've tried hard to learn this scheduling system, but think we still don't get it. It's next to impossible to drop anything, so I don't get it when LAA guys talk about doing so well floating. I'm guessing LAA guys really pilot to pilot trade and LUS haven't gotten the hang of it? Just my seniority range with PBS?

A great APA service would be to have the very successful LAA scheduling gurus come to LUS bases and go give a seminar.

The PBS system is 100% crap. It's not a matter of "learning" it really well, the system doesn't have anywhere near the granularity and control of other systems.

R57 - the way to succeed with using floated vacations hours is to post trips for pickup. On the N4 they show up 'below the line.' That's where you have more success vs relying on TTOT to drop trips. Above the line is company OT, 'below the line' is a pilot dropping a trip. Below the line pickups can be done before TTOT. It requires you to contact the owning pilot and he'll 'drop' the trip to you.

The better the trip, and the shorter it is(turns!!), the better odds of having someone pick up the trip. I've bid a month of turns and ended up not flying a single one. Dropped some, traded the others for different trips. It's a way to get time off when you can't hold a vacation in that month. You'll typically get a bunch of days off but it's harder to do if you're looking for a specific start and end date.

But even a blind squirrel gets lucky. Buddy dropped a trip over Christmas and used his floated vacation bank to pay for it. He was stunned that it allowed the drop but sometimes it happens.

Finally offering premium and OG in my seat. Let's show some unity and only fly premium.


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I don't think many LUS guys understand or are using trade. With my PBS blocks I've only been able to improve my line by generally picking up more time. For Dec I listed every trip for drop at one time, only one that did was covered by CPA, but it was for the second week. Nothing around the holidays.

For January I tried to get 1 days to improve my trip trading chances. I bid everyone in layer 1, got none.

Maybe it's just an awareness issue? IDK. Or maybe PBS satisfies more guys so they're not working as hard to work other days?? IDK.

I've used it to get a week's vacation over Memorial Day, Labor Day, Easter and July 4th or a week at the beach during the summer.

Bid turns that don't touch the holiday weekend. Post the trips where you're trying to get time off first. After they're gone (no guarantee) post any other trips you want to get rid of or trade those turns using the TTOT system.

As soon as bids are final guys post trips below the line. You can't get them by yourself until TTOT opens. Beforehand you can by calling the posting guy directly. I've had a completely different month before TTS/TTOT become active. Dropped some of mine to guys who called and picked up from other guys below the line.

Dropping a trip for CPA around holidays is a rare exception.

The problem is twofold...

1. Schedule gurus typically don't like to share the knowledge, because they'll loose their edge.

2. PBS is changing the game on the LAA side now as well, so they have some new tricks to learn as well.

One problem for LUS bases, is lack of participation. Hardly anyone is using TTS, and most guys probably aren't aware that they can now pick up trips in open time at any time in the month using TTOT. I've flown with a few really sharp captains who have taken the time to learn the new system and taken advantage of litesabre, and are improving their schedule. Unfortunately, they are outnumbered by the guys who literally have no clue about the new systems, and our contract. Hell, there are guys still printing the release!

Like all things AA, we were trained by memo. The scheduling training was the worst. Most of what I know(patchy) I learned from LAA guys and other LUS guys by trial and error.

I got litesabre early and have traded. But very little drop going on. Red, red, red and TTS saying it can't complete because of open time restrictions.

I think the key will be more participation in trade and TTS.

With SAP others laziness helped the rest of us. Not so with the current system.

I still like a paper flight plan and TPS. For the stuff you use frequently, it's easier to have a paper copy versus looking it up on the iPad.

But I'm not floating!

I'm not floating and I still print the paperwork.

The part 1 says "All clearances Dom and Int'l that do not come across acars printer MUST be written on the flight plan."

So I tried this week save the EFlight plan, then Ai thought CPDLC clearance, i'd use the IPAD pencil(marker) to write on EFlight plan the clearance to comply with the Part 1.
You cannot. Only in Jepp FD or manuals or goodreader or IBooks can you notation.

So they'll have to change Part 1 or policy until I go paperless.

Yes, I emailed chiefs.

So they tell us we can go paperless and you told them we can't? What'd they say?

You can export the plan out of CCI and into an adobe reader or myMobile365 (then you can write on it). Only problem is, it doesn't always work...this needs to be fixed. The cool thing is, in your JeppFD-Pro you can swipe in from the right side and adobe reader will open with your plan. So you can have your TPS showing along with the taxi diagram.

I thought I'd feel that way as well, but once you figure out a good system with the iPad, it's easier without the paper, reduces the work of, folding, tearing, etc, and makes the cockpit cleaner.

And as to the original topic, I won't be floating this year. I normally float one week to help offset mil leave.

Is there any way you get CCI to print using a laser printer instead of a high-tech 22nd century OKI 24pin print center?

I had trouble accessing wings the other day. Where on Jetnet or CCI can you print out an East pdf expense report?

Blasphemy!!!

Sounds like ol' TW in DFW just undercut the APA president on not floating. Good to see that the APA dysfunction continues. We're F-ed in 2020. These clowns would rather play politics then unify on something/anything for the greater good of the pilot group. I still hold out hope the new blood coming in will eventually help straighten this out one day.

What'd that idiot TW do?

Be VERY careful with that question!

I'm with Surprise, and also not floating.

TW the rogue DFW rep shows everything that is wrong with APA's structure.

The BOD should be BEHIND the President not trying to step on top of his unifying, leverage creating no-float campaign.

You don't see this level of dysfunction and lack of unity from the UAL and DAL MECs.

We need ALPA now.

Yep. Gotta say I was not surprised by his actions.

I'll No-Float myself as a show of unity, which is really what this is about. It's about time that we show some cohesiveness.

Just when you think APA can't get any worse... And we wonder why we have such a sub standard contract!

As someone above wrote.. We are so gonna get our a$$es handed to us in 2020.... again.

Some of the membership is already up in arms about not being able to float. We can't even comply in unity with ONE SIMPLE darn request from our president.... How in the heck are we going to unify with much more important issues??

Good Grief! If our president asks a request of us... DO IT and show some unity! Management must be hoarse from all the laughter going on at Center Port.

I'd be willing to bet UAL and DAL pilots don't even have the option of floating their vacations.... Gee what a concept!

aa73 and A321, is APA getting worse or is it just a few (in power) that make life miserable for everybody else? Would this NOT be possible under ALPA?

I don't understand TW's goal, what is he trying to accomplish? The destruction of APA? Or is he just plain dumb and wants to act important? I don't get his agenda, he has done a lot of harm to this pilot group.

Just got an email that said leadership won't float... TW included!!
Love the unity guys. Keep it up!

Agree. Thumbs up! Right way forward!

Westbrook is all about Westbook..... I'm amazed he can stand himself.