Does Southern Air Furlough often?
03-19-2008, 01:25 PM
#81
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2006
Position: The Right One
Posts: 588
Originally Posted by ghilis101
Liquidate a fleet of Classic 747's? Youre joking right? Those airplanes are probably not even worth $2 Million with the engines off of them, and they have the potential to create more revenue than theyre worth several times over each month. Southern will be around for a long time.
As soon as an opportunity to turn a tidy profit on their acquisition of Southern presents itself, OHC will pounce on it like a duck on a June bug. OHC will liquidate the company, translation is, sell as a complete package, piece meal sell off, or in a year or two, buy another small company (Tradewinds/Focus maybe) and do another 3 way shell game on the depreciation for the IRS, just like they did with Cargo 360+SAI deal.
As I said before, been there-done that, got the T-shirt. I just hope the nice people at Southern get as much severence protection as the people at Cargo 360 got. What is Southern's track record for taking care of it's people? Let me know how it turns out, good luck.
I wonder if the Southern Crews have received their "signing bonus" for the merger yet? Should have happened in January when the 3rd aircraft transfered to their op specs.
03-19-2008, 02:29 PM
#82
Line Holder
Joined APC: Jan 2008
Posts: 42
Hmmm,
I wouldn't be so quick to write us off. Southern's been around in one form or another for 60+ years. Not many cargo carriers can claim that. It's been through multiple bankruptcies, ownership changes, and corporate reboots and is still around.
A lot of the stuff you said is possible, but...
One thing about Southern (and this is as sure a thing as death and taxes), is that they NEVER spend a dime unless they have to.
They are all fired up to redo the manuals + redo the training department, and both of those things cost money. Money that does not "have" to be spent to maintain the status quo (or park+ part/sell/whatever else you suggest). It does not make sense, that they would do such a thing unless they plan on moving forward.
Southern has one of (if not) the cheapest rates of any of the Heavylift ACMI operators, and a reputation for flexibility (to offset it's reliability). Those things don't just matter a little to ACMI Customers... They are the two biggest reasons customers even bother to utilize ACMI vendors.
Southern has far less debt than many of our competitors. And although it is operationally chaotic, it is fiscally sound. That's why Southern people were left running things instead of the C360 people.
Can anyone feel safe (anywhere) with an aviation career, when oil is over $110/barrel...? Not unless they are hitting Grandma's medicine cabinet. But Southern is not in a bad position in comparison to other workplaces, and even in a recession people will need cargo hauled.
My mouth isn't stained by the SAI Koolaid, but I do recognize Southern for what it really is. It is a survivor in a very brutal industry, and has made Mr. Neff (and now Oak Hill) a crap load of money. It is not the most pretty, nor
stable of outfits, but it is a company that has as good or better a chance, to keep me employed as most other flying jobs out there nowadays.
I wouldn't be so quick to write us off. Southern's been around in one form or another for 60+ years. Not many cargo carriers can claim that. It's been through multiple bankruptcies, ownership changes, and corporate reboots and is still around.
A lot of the stuff you said is possible, but...
One thing about Southern (and this is as sure a thing as death and taxes), is that they NEVER spend a dime unless they have to.
They are all fired up to redo the manuals + redo the training department, and both of those things cost money. Money that does not "have" to be spent to maintain the status quo (or park+ part/sell/whatever else you suggest). It does not make sense, that they would do such a thing unless they plan on moving forward.
Southern has one of (if not) the cheapest rates of any of the Heavylift ACMI operators, and a reputation for flexibility (to offset it's reliability). Those things don't just matter a little to ACMI Customers... They are the two biggest reasons customers even bother to utilize ACMI vendors.
Southern has far less debt than many of our competitors. And although it is operationally chaotic, it is fiscally sound. That's why Southern people were left running things instead of the C360 people.
Can anyone feel safe (anywhere) with an aviation career, when oil is over $110/barrel...? Not unless they are hitting Grandma's medicine cabinet. But Southern is not in a bad position in comparison to other workplaces, and even in a recession people will need cargo hauled.
My mouth isn't stained by the SAI Koolaid, but I do recognize Southern for what it really is. It is a survivor in a very brutal industry, and has made Mr. Neff (and now Oak Hill) a crap load of money. It is not the most pretty, nor
stable of outfits, but it is a company that has as good or better a chance, to keep me employed as most other flying jobs out there nowadays.
03-19-2008, 04:41 PM
#84
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2006
Position: C-172 FO
Posts: 468
Originally Posted by savannahceltic
Hmmm,
Southern's been around in one form or another for 60+ years. Not many cargo carriers can claim that. It's been through multiple bankruptcies, ownership changes, and corporate reboots and is still around.
Southern's been around in one form or another for 60+ years. Not many cargo carriers can claim that. It's been through multiple bankruptcies, ownership changes, and corporate reboots and is still around.
Originally Posted by savannahceltic
They are all fired up to redo the manuals + redo the training department, and both of those things cost money. Money that does not "have" to be spent to maintain the status quo (or park+ part/sell/whatever else you suggest). It does not make sense, that they would do such a thing unless they plan on moving forward.
Originally Posted by savannahceltic
Southern has one of (if not) the cheapest rates of any of the Heavylift ACMI operators, and a reputation for flexibility (to offset it's reliability). Those things don't just matter a little to ACMI Customers... They are the two biggest reasons customers even bother to utilize ACMI vendors.
Originally Posted by savannahceltic
Southern has far less debt than many of our competitors. And although it is operationally chaotic, it is fiscally sound. That's why Southern people were left running things instead of the C360 people.
Originally Posted by savannahceltic
Can anyone feel safe (anywhere) with an aviation career, when oil is over $110/barrel...? Not unless they are hitting Grandma's medicine cabinet. But Southern is not in a bad position in comparison to other workplaces, and even in a recession people will need cargo hauled.
Originally Posted by savannahceltic
My mouth isn't stained by the SAI Koolaid,
Originally Posted by savannahceltic
but I do recognize Southern for what it really is. It is a survivor in a very brutal industry, and has made Mr. Neff (and now Oak Hill) a crap load of money. It is not the most pretty, nor
stable of outfits, but it is a company that has as good or better a chance, to keep me employed as most other flying jobs out there nowadays.
stable of outfits, but it is a company that has as good or better a chance, to keep me employed as most other flying jobs out there nowadays.
03-19-2008, 07:20 PM
#85
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2006
Position: The Right One
Posts: 588
Originally Posted by savannahceltic
Dinner is for Chicks. I'll pay with beer if I lose the wager. 
For Oak Hill to have first attempted C360, and then buy up Southern just to dabble in the parts business is not how Hedge Funds work. They look for far greater returns on their investments than that.
Can the company park and part if things head south? Yeah. But that goes against why Oak Hill has gotten involved with Southern in the first place.
For Oak Hill to have first attempted C360, and then buy up Southern just to dabble in the parts business is not how Hedge Funds work. They look for far greater returns on their investments than that.
Can the company park and part if things head south? Yeah. But that goes against why Oak Hill has gotten involved with Southern in the first place.
Beer is good
but what's wrong with Chicks 
It is clear to me (and others) that you just don't understand Oak Hill. It is like a Harley Davidson: For those that get it, no explanation is necessary, for those who don't, no explanation is possible.
Fly Safe out there.
Sabre . . . Out
03-20-2008, 12:06 AM
#88
Line Holder
Joined APC: Jan 2008
Posts: 42
Dutch,
Once again, you spout off about a company and situation that you know nothing about.
1. SAT to SAI or "60+ Years of History": I guess you missed the lines about "corporate REBOOT" or "around in one FORM or another".
Obviously SAI is not the same exact company as SAT, but it does trace it's lineage directly back to Transport.
The differences have more to do with changing ownership, losing the Hercs, moving HQ, and a desire to "start over" without a functioning union or workforce longevity on the property... Than an outright desire to sever ties with the predecessor company.
The people who started SAI were from SAT, the first SAI pilots were from SAT, and much of the culture and working environment of SAI is derived from Transport. It is a much closer tie to a historic carrier than the recent versions of "Pan Am" might have had to the original
Is it the same airline...? No. But it is obvious that it is the same lineage.
The fact is, that SAI has a history to draw upon, while outfits like the former C360 do not. And that history is that Southern keeps coming back in one form or another over time.
2. My "Politics": Um, ok...
The point was that Southern could keep doing, exactly what it was doing with the same manuals + training structure already in place. They only have to upgrade such things if they are serious about doing something different. That they have hired ($$$) people, just for that reason is an indication they are serious about doing so. It's a step in the right direction, so excuse me for taking it as a positive sign.
3. "Cheaper than everyone":
We are. That has kept business coming our way. What exactly do you not understand about that...?
Or are you only trying to imply that I am "paying for the job" in lower wages...?
Not that I have to explain myself to you, but I came to Southern because I knew I could upgrade quickly, and fly alot. Those two factors meant that it has been a 6 figure job in an industry where finding that kind of salary in a short amount of time is a good trick.
I was on furlough from US Airways, and I chose not to recall. Because the money, and the job outlook at Southern was better than returning to "8 days at home, sitting short call reserve in a PHL crashpad, commute to work lifestyle that may soon lead to yet another furlough as oil prices soar..."
I'm here for the money. I'll stay until something better comes along.
I'm not sure how you think that is so different than most other professional pilots out there. But then again, I'm not sure why you think many of the things you do.
4. "Kool Aid":
You seem to think I am some kind of mouthpiece for the company, but you have to realize I merely have a low tolerance for outsiders taking a dump on my workplace, based upon what "they have heard". You don't see me countering anything negative that a fellow Southern pilot has to say on here, because they earned the right to ***** by actually experiencing the situation. THEY understand the reasons people work for Southern, and they know both the ups and downs.
Southern is not "Aviation Shang-ri-la", but it is not the worst place to work either. I'd rate it about middle of the pack as readily available jobs go. I'm not saying that because I'm Southern's PR guy, rather it is just my opinion based upon almost two decades of flying jobs (and the associated bankruptcies, downgrades, furloughs, and overall BS I've dealt with elsewhere). Could it be a LOT better, damn straight.
I just feel that I'm being honest when I do give both sides of the story. How exactly are you supposed to believe anyone that *****es 100% about any outfit, yet continues to work there. That does not make sense. There have to be reasons someone applied to, signed on, and remain at any given company, and I'm just voicing some of the things/reasons I associated with(and remain at) Southern.
You might not want to hear it (because in your mind, you want to 100% justify you decision to not come over to Southern). but you are not the only guy reading this board.
I had a good idea what I was getting myself into when I came over to Southern, and it has been pretty close to what actual Southern pilots told me it would be like. I'm just trying to duplicate the full story (good and bad) that they told me before I signed on.
Some days at Southern suck a lot. But other days are easy, enjoyable flights with good layovers and great crews. Some months at Southern you sit around and make guarantee, other months you fly your ass off and pull down great pay. Some months you have a lot of time at home, other months you wonder if you'll ever get home...
It is what it is. Apply if you want, don't if you don't. I'm not going to sugarcoat the place, but IMO it has been a better (and more profitable) place for me (the last two years) than many of the other places I could have worked.
Once again, you spout off about a company and situation that you know nothing about.
1. SAT to SAI or "60+ Years of History": I guess you missed the lines about "corporate REBOOT" or "around in one FORM or another".
Obviously SAI is not the same exact company as SAT, but it does trace it's lineage directly back to Transport.
The differences have more to do with changing ownership, losing the Hercs, moving HQ, and a desire to "start over" without a functioning union or workforce longevity on the property... Than an outright desire to sever ties with the predecessor company.
The people who started SAI were from SAT, the first SAI pilots were from SAT, and much of the culture and working environment of SAI is derived from Transport. It is a much closer tie to a historic carrier than the recent versions of "Pan Am" might have had to the original
Is it the same airline...? No. But it is obvious that it is the same lineage.
The fact is, that SAI has a history to draw upon, while outfits like the former C360 do not. And that history is that Southern keeps coming back in one form or another over time.
2. My "Politics":
Um, ok...The point was that Southern could keep doing, exactly what it was doing with the same manuals + training structure already in place. They only have to upgrade such things if they are serious about doing something different. That they have hired ($$$) people, just for that reason is an indication they are serious about doing so. It's a step in the right direction, so excuse me for taking it as a positive sign.
3. "Cheaper than everyone":
We are. That has kept business coming our way. What exactly do you not understand about that...?
Or are you only trying to imply that I am "paying for the job" in lower wages...?
Not that I have to explain myself to you, but I came to Southern because I knew I could upgrade quickly, and fly alot. Those two factors meant that it has been a 6 figure job in an industry where finding that kind of salary in a short amount of time is a good trick.
I was on furlough from US Airways, and I chose not to recall. Because the money, and the job outlook at Southern was better than returning to "8 days at home, sitting short call reserve in a PHL crashpad, commute to work lifestyle that may soon lead to yet another furlough as oil prices soar..."
I'm here for the money. I'll stay until something better comes along.
I'm not sure how you think that is so different than most other professional pilots out there. But then again, I'm not sure why you think many of the things you do.
4. "Kool Aid":
You seem to think I am some kind of mouthpiece for the company, but you have to realize I merely have a low tolerance for outsiders taking a dump on my workplace, based upon what "they have heard". You don't see me countering anything negative that a fellow Southern pilot has to say on here, because they earned the right to ***** by actually experiencing the situation. THEY understand the reasons people work for Southern, and they know both the ups and downs.
Southern is not "Aviation Shang-ri-la", but it is not the worst place to work either. I'd rate it about middle of the pack as readily available jobs go. I'm not saying that because I'm Southern's PR guy, rather it is just my opinion based upon almost two decades of flying jobs (and the associated bankruptcies, downgrades, furloughs, and overall BS I've dealt with elsewhere). Could it be a LOT better, damn straight.
I just feel that I'm being honest when I do give both sides of the story. How exactly are you supposed to believe anyone that *****es 100% about any outfit, yet continues to work there. That does not make sense. There have to be reasons someone applied to, signed on, and remain at any given company, and I'm just voicing some of the things/reasons I associated with(and remain at) Southern.
You might not want to hear it (because in your mind, you want to 100% justify you decision to not come over to Southern). but you are not the only guy reading this board.
I had a good idea what I was getting myself into when I came over to Southern, and it has been pretty close to what actual Southern pilots told me it would be like. I'm just trying to duplicate the full story (good and bad) that they told me before I signed on.
Some days at Southern suck a lot. But other days are easy, enjoyable flights with good layovers and great crews. Some months at Southern you sit around and make guarantee, other months you fly your ass off and pull down great pay. Some months you have a lot of time at home, other months you wonder if you'll ever get home...
It is what it is. Apply if you want, don't if you don't. I'm not going to sugarcoat the place, but IMO it has been a better (and more profitable) place for me (the last two years) than many of the other places I could have worked.
Last edited by savannahceltic; 03-20-2008 at 12:12 AM.
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