Ah yes, the grass is ALWAYS greener...

And I've never met a Delta/FedEx/American pilot who wasn't ecstatic about his job and company. In fact, the Delta pilots are so happy with the way they're being treated and valued by their management that they overwhelmingly voted down the latest TA offered.

Delta/American/United/FedEx/Fill-In-The-Blank are the Promised Land, or Holy Grail, of flying jobs for many (maybe even most?) pilots. But not for all. Some are quite happy (perhaps a foreign concept for many pilots) flying twin Otters in the Alaskan Bush, or flying a Hawker 900 in a corporate gig.

I for one can't think of a more miserable group of human beings than the old US Airways (East, to be specific) pilots. But, hey, it's a major (or was) so anyone would be stupid not to go there, right? As for me, you couldn't stuff enough cash into a 747 main cargo deck to get me to ever have gone to work there. But that's just one man's opinion, so treat it as such.

I appreciate your points, and I agree that Atlas pilots are grossly under paid, and the current working agreement has a lot that needs to be addressed. But let's not over-exaggerate the virtual salt mine conditions we labor under every day. Prospective new hires shouldn't come here starry-eyed, because no place is perfect. No place. They need to have a realistic understanding of just what working for Atlas entails so they can make as informed a career decision as possible that best suits their individual needs.

While I wish the best for those whose ultimate goal is to get on with a Delta/FedEx, I also recognize that there are others who are willing to take a stand here at Atlas to fix what's broken, instead of chasing the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow.

 

You are a very wise man.

 

Very well said!


QUOTE=Professor Chaos;2044212]Ah yes, the grass is ALWAYS greener...

And I've never met a Delta/FedEx/American pilot who wasn't ecstatic about his job and company. In fact, the Delta pilots are so happy with the way they're being treated and valued by their management that they overwhelmingly voted down the latest TA offered.

Delta/American/United/FedEx/Fill-In-The-Blank are the Promised Land, or Holy Grail, of flying jobs for many (maybe even most?) pilots. But not for all. Some are quite happy (perhaps a foreign concept for many pilots) flying twin Otters in the Alaskan Bush, or flying a Hawker 900 in a corporate gig.

I for one can't think of a more miserable group of human beings than the old US Airways (East, to be specific) pilots. But, hey, it's a major (or was) so anyone would be stupid not to go there, right? As for me, you couldn't stuff enough cash into a 747 main cargo deck to get me to ever have gone to work there. But that's just one man's opinion, so treat it as such.

I appreciate your points, and I agree that Atlas pilots are grossly under paid, and the current working agreement has a lot that needs to be addressed. But let's not over-exaggerate the virtual salt mine conditions we labor under every day. Prospective new hires shouldn't come here starry-eyed, because no place is perfect. No place. They need to have a realistic understanding of just what working for Atlas entails so they can make as informed a career decision as possible that best suits their individual needs.

While I wish the best for those whose ultimate goal is to get on with a Delta/FedEx, I also recognize that there are others who are willing to take a stand here at Atlas to fix what's broken, instead of chasing the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow.[/QUOTE]

 

Voting down TA's (Delta, etc), and griping about the company you work for (all pilots!) is a LONG WAY from your OWN UNION telling you to LEAVE! Equating the two is not an honest comparison. The more we poo-poo the conditions here (in comparison to our direct competitors) the further we are from a solution.

I realize some are happy flying otters, etc etc. Great! People here didn't choose to do that. They chose to fly a 747 around the world on 17 day trips, and should be compensated as such.
"over-exaggerate the virtual salt mine conditions we labor under every day"
Seriously?! Please promise us that when the negotiation rubber meets the road sometime this year that you won't go sounding that nonsense in the flight deck. Sit down and have a read of our competitors contracts...get back to us on that exaggeration.

I appreciate your desire to be moderate in tone...but is it really time for that?

 

Your original ill-informed post has so many wrong assumptions it is nearly pointless to discuss it here.

However, just a quick note about THE union -- have you given even one moment of thought to why they sent that message out? Did you stop to think THE union may have a motive here?

One can fault the company all day long here, and even some of our pilots that do the company's bidding and violate our own CBA...but don't think for a minute that THE union is to be blamed here. Quite the opposite -- how many times have you heard our own leadership tell us to follow the CBA, don't do any favors, don't do HDQ staffers' jobs, etc etc...

Okay, your post is ****ing me off, and I'll will not let you raise my blood pressure. I'm outta here...goodnight.

 

Does Atlas give you a ticket to get to training in Miami? And do you get anything if you choose to drive?

 

They will fly you to and from. They also FedEx all your training pubs back home. If you drive I'm pretty sure they will give you mileage. But that is probably something best to take up with them for specifics. I didn't have a POV down there. But my sim partner and I split a rental car for the days we had horrid sim times. The rest of the time you should be able to use hotel shuttle or Prestige.

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Just arrived in Miami today via car for training to start tomorrow. I noticed in the parking lot there are signs everywhere stating you have to have the proper decal to park there. Would I be better off taking the group transportation the first day before I take a vehicle onsite every day?

To answer the previous post's question: Atlas will either buy a plane ticket to training or cover driving costs at the standard IRS mileage amount up to $450 each way.

 

"Seriously?! Please promise us that when the negotiation rubber meets the road sometime this year that you won't go sounding that nonsense in the flight deck. Sit down and have a read of our competitors contracts...get back to us on that exaggeration.

I appreciate your desire to be moderate in tone...but is it really time for that?"

My interest isn't so much in moderation as it is accuracy. We do everyone, especially ourselves, a disservice when we state inaccurate or untruthful things. One of our most valuable assets at the negotiating table is our credibility as a pilot group. While I appreciate your sentiment, we must not let our enthusiasms undermine our credibility, because it will take both to achieve the contract we deserve.

" I can tell tell you with a great deal of certainty that there are no pilots on the FO list who are eligible to move on from Atlas who are not actively seeking to do so."

Not only is this a demonstrably inaccurate statement, but it is precisely this kind of "certainty" that has led to so many self inflicted economic wounds to this profession over the past 70 years.

The union tweet was a negotiating tactic. Which is not to say it's a bluff. Far from it. I applaud the union's efforts to do what it can to help pilots get hired at other airlines, as I believe they see this as a good way to bring pressure to bear on management in our contract negotiations. But let's not infer more from the tweet than is prudent.

Let me reiterate that you and I are on the same side. Whatever disagreements we may have are nothing as compared to the differences we have with some in management.

For prospective Atlas applicants still following this thread, you need to be aware that our current contract lacks some basic pay and seniority protections that can be found even in many regional airline contracts. You should also know that the SOB in middle management that is making life miserable for you on a daily basis at your current company also works here at Atlas. While the hourly rates may look enticing, especially for pilots currently at regional airlines, they do not tell the whole story (and even then, as many have pointed out, a cursory comparison of them with other airlines will show them to be woefully inadequate).

That said, employment at Atlas does have upsides. But it is a unique work environment. Atlas is not a scheduled passenger service. It is not a night freight company. It is not a VIP charter outfit. It is not an ad hoc charter freight business. It is all of those, plus whatever other schemes management comes up with to make a buck. You will be forced to take a far more proactive role in making the operation work (due to an inadequate support structure as much as the frequent mismanagement of the few resources available), often in some remote part of the world with only the most tenuous of communication links to the rest of the company.

For many of you, Atlas would be a great place to come and work, even if only for a short time, while for others it would be a huge mistake. Just make sure you find out as much as you can about it before making a career impacting decision.

 

Don't worry about the decal. They never issued one to anyone in my class and we parked in the fenced area all the time. If your really concerned about it there is a non fenced in area to park in that doesn't say anything about decals that I recall

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