Atlas Air Hiring
(just trying to lighten the mood)
04-13-2018 | 08:09 PM
Ice-bagger
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 273
Likes: 0
The point was that this is a toxic work environment and the retort was that our toxic work environment is all "self inflicted".
How are contractual scheduling violations "self inflicted"?
How are contractually interrupted rest periods "self inflicted"?
How are contractual crew member contact violations "self inflicted"?
How are threatening corporate communications "self inflicted"?
How are significantly sub-par wages "self inflicted"?
How is inadequate staffing "self inflicted"?
How is inadequate catering "self inflicted"?
It is the work environment created by Atlas management that is in question here NOT the inter-crew communications on the plane. You think the cockpit is the toxic environment? Well mine isn't. I leave hate and anger on the ramp as do most every one of the other Atlas pilots that I know. There is no place for hate and anger in on the flight deck. Professional pilots know this. That doesn't mean that there can't be discussions about company or union issues, but it is not ever toxic. The toxicity comes from the company. Period.
You think that the Hong Kong incident had anything to do with contractual disagreements in the cockpit? Or the Narita runway incident? Or the GNE on the NAT tracks? Or the incidents at Port Harcourt, Jabara, Anchorage, or LAX? NONE of those had an ounce of blame on union issues or contractual disagreements in the cockpit. Several of those incidents could have resulted in a hull loss and the low time captains paired with low time FO's do not skew the odds at all in favor of safety.
I have nothing but respect for the new hire crew members that I fly with. We are getting some great pilots here, but flying is 10% skill and 90% judgement and that judgement comes from experience and we are accumulating a significant lack of experience at Atlas.
We are losing seasoned pilots and with that loss of experience comes an increased risk. It's that simple.
How are contractual scheduling violations "self inflicted"?
How are contractually interrupted rest periods "self inflicted"?
How are contractual crew member contact violations "self inflicted"?
How are threatening corporate communications "self inflicted"?
How are significantly sub-par wages "self inflicted"?
How is inadequate staffing "self inflicted"?
How is inadequate catering "self inflicted"?
It is the work environment created by Atlas management that is in question here NOT the inter-crew communications on the plane. You think the cockpit is the toxic environment? Well mine isn't. I leave hate and anger on the ramp as do most every one of the other Atlas pilots that I know. There is no place for hate and anger in on the flight deck. Professional pilots know this. That doesn't mean that there can't be discussions about company or union issues, but it is not ever toxic. The toxicity comes from the company. Period.
You think that the Hong Kong incident had anything to do with contractual disagreements in the cockpit? Or the Narita runway incident? Or the GNE on the NAT tracks? Or the incidents at Port Harcourt, Jabara, Anchorage, or LAX? NONE of those had an ounce of blame on union issues or contractual disagreements in the cockpit. Several of those incidents could have resulted in a hull loss and the low time captains paired with low time FO's do not skew the odds at all in favor of safety.
I have nothing but respect for the new hire crew members that I fly with. We are getting some great pilots here, but flying is 10% skill and 90% judgement and that judgement comes from experience and we are accumulating a significant lack of experience at Atlas.
We are losing seasoned pilots and with that loss of experience comes an increased risk. It's that simple.
I agree with all of your points but it is only toxic to the point that you allow it to affect you! On a day to day basis, how does any of what the company is doing to us really affect your decision making as a professional pilot? In my world......zero. It is the nature of doing business. I guess that is the difference between me and you......you think that a toxic work environment is one that is unacceptable to you(for the aforementioned reasons and you let it manipulate you) and I think that a toxic work environment is one that is able to be proven in a court of law.
It's OK. I agree with you. I think that the nature of our negotiations is unacceptable too, but that won't change the pace of anything. So, what can I do? Should I spin out of control, or go home to my family and leave work behind while I am still employed by Atlas for the time being. That is all I am suggesting.
04-13-2018 | 08:16 PM
Ice-bagger
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 273
Likes: 0
Your quote would imply that we are being held captive. If you believe that then you are quite uninformed and uneducated. OR......this is your attempt at hyperbole.........either way, ineffective.
I'm bored and I'm on R2........I've got ALL day. Keep it coming wise guy.
04-13-2018 | 11:46 PM
Line Holder
Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 781
Likes: 0
From: Wichita
Your quote would imply that we are being held captive. If you believe that then you are quite uninformed and uneducated. OR......this is your attempt at hyperbole.........either way, ineffective.
I'm bored and I'm on R2........I've got ALL day. Keep it coming wise guy.
I'm bored and I'm on R2........I've got ALL day. Keep it coming wise guy.
04-14-2018 | 05:34 AM
Ice-bagger
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 273
Likes: 0
Yup. Same with ANC. The Jabara event was exacerbated by the crew not following the SOP's. And the LAX incident was a wind shear event. None of these events have anything to do with the narrative that 8 mentioned above......but if we mention it we are ANTI UNION.
I am not anti union and I am sure that TiredSoul isn't either. Just keep unrelated events out of the argument.
04-14-2018 | 10:39 AM
Line Holder
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 1,292
Likes: 2
From: 747
You're shouting Dave. Not necessary ...
I think by now, everyone that reads this thread to gean some info about the current state of affairs at Atlas understands that Dave and Tired Soul think life at Atlas is happy and there is nothing to do here but accept things for the way they are and simply wait for the union to do give them a new contract.
Happy. Happy. Happy. Nothing wrong here and if anyone disagrees with you, then you two will argue to the ends of the Earth that compared to (insert dire previous job here) life at Atlas is just like heaven on Earth.
Fortunately, aside from the two of you, the vast majority of Atlas pilots posting here are very clear about the negatives of working at Atlas.
Also clear are the vast majority of potential pilots reading these threads who understand exactly where Atlas stands in relation to all of the other airlines that they are looking at and correctly place Atlas at the bottom of their list.
I think by now, everyone that reads this thread to gean some info about the current state of affairs at Atlas understands that Dave and Tired Soul think life at Atlas is happy and there is nothing to do here but accept things for the way they are and simply wait for the union to do give them a new contract.
Happy. Happy. Happy. Nothing wrong here and if anyone disagrees with you, then you two will argue to the ends of the Earth that compared to (insert dire previous job here) life at Atlas is just like heaven on Earth.
Fortunately, aside from the two of you, the vast majority of Atlas pilots posting here are very clear about the negatives of working at Atlas.
Also clear are the vast majority of potential pilots reading these threads who understand exactly where Atlas stands in relation to all of the other airlines that they are looking at and correctly place Atlas at the bottom of their list.
04-14-2018 | 10:43 AM
Line Holder
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 1,292
Likes: 2
From: 747
Yup. Same with ANC. The Jabara event was exacerbated by the crew not following the SOP's. And the LAX incident was a wind shear event. None of these events have anything to do with the narrative that 8 mentioned above......but if we mention it we are ANTI UNION.
I am not anti union and I am sure that TiredSoul isn't either. Just keep unrelated events out of the argument.
I am not anti union and I am sure that TiredSoul isn't either. Just keep unrelated events out of the argument.
And the LAX incident I refer to was a NMAC, not the pod strike. Again, neither of which were caused by this "toxicity" you dream about.
04-14-2018 | 10:55 AM
Line Holder
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 1,292
Likes: 2
From: 747
The "toxic" environment that you refer to is the relationship you seem to think exists between you and other crewmembers who disagree with your assessment that life at Atlas is just fine. I haven't ever experienced any toxicity in the cockpit unless you count being pressured by maintenance control or management to fly an illegal or unsafe airplane. It is never with other created by other crewmembers.
As far as what you can do ... you could join your union brothers and sisters and walk a picket line if you have not already done so. Perhaps you could also keep your criticism of the union directed (constructively) at the union stewards where your suggestions might do some good and not aired directly into the public domaine where it would only hurt solidarity.
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