I was going to respond to your Diatribe 8 but holy cow, you are just too "toxic". Hahahahahaha!

But seriously, you are trying to fit a square peg in a round hole. Your argument doesn't get better just because you yell and bang your drum louder(my wife tells me that). I have told you and others countless times that I agree with you but just because the items that are being discussed are being viewed from a different perspective I am being vilified, verbally assaulted, accused of being a company man and the like. It only makes those that are committing those actions appear close minded.


At one point I thought we had a Koombaya moment......oh well. Nevermind.

 

I think both of you guys are great. Maybe we ought to talk about this stuff over drinks together instead of airing it out on a public forum that's viewed by all parties? There are some very nice places with awesome service, all of which aren't on the internet. Who knows, we could become lifelong friends, share photos of our kids and hunt antelope?

 

This ^^^^^^^

 

The new Spirit CBA cliff notes are up under "Airline Profiles." Not bad for a crappy little LCC that nobody likes. 11% direct contrib is nice. Seems like people have poo poo'ed over this CBA on the other board, but sadly this is lightyears ahead of Atlas. The soft time and time off seems fairly decent also.

 

All the increasingly rancorous rhetoric on these pages aside, all one really has to do in order to gauge how things have changed for the worse at Atlas is to compare the postings of 2010 or so to those made recently. The feeling around here was considerably different then. Perhaps one day that will change again for the better. It will be quite some time, though.

 

Lets see, the Atlas Facebook page GCComms moderates and censors members posts before they are viewable along with booting off anyone identified as FPL bylaw supporter that passed by majority vote or members regularly expressing an opinion contrary to the "Kirchner Youth Program" (P2P) is told to say. Also remember to thank your leadership for using a medium (facebook) that data mines the members information and anyone in their personal contact list on their phones via messenger and etc. I believe that is at approximately 87 million victims and counting now in which our leadership said that it's Facebook fault despite it being told to them before implementing the facebook page that data mining is what facebook does for their "free" service and we are now living with the results of that decision. While no one expected exactly a Cambridge Analytical event, no one should be surprised especially when it was forewarned what was at risk.

The Atlas ExCo stops all membership posts to Atlas 1224 private web forums by removing all the moderators that approved, deleted, censored members postings. Like on facebook, all posts had to be approved first before being made viewable. At least we could fight among ourselves in our private forum without much worry about our information being mined. The Atlas ExCo and Comms guys said it was Local 1224 initiative to kill the forums but the President of the local says that they were only discussing taking down the forums to save money but had not decided on an action yet. I lean towards the ExCo stretching the truth on this, again. That is why they are still viewable on our website but our Atlas ExCo decided on their own to "control the narrative" of our group and effectively stopped the use of the Atlas web forums by removing the moderators. So no posts get approved for viewing. That is why there are currently two months of inactivity on it now. Local 1224 still has them up for all the other carriers in our local, but the Atlas ExCo wants to control what is said on theirs. While the forums were not super active with posts it had a number of lurkers. The communications committee push of members towards the facebook site did slow the forums down. The Atlas forums were a place you had a modicum of a chance to get posted due to equal use of union assets where the facebook page had none of that.

So, there are not a lot of places for our members to go if they have anything slightly different to express that doesn't follow the Kirchner Youth Movement diatribe. So you can blame those past ExCo actions on guys going to public forums.

I was toying with the idea of creating a private facebook like social media for our group. There are open source ones out there that provide about an equivalent product as facebook with web forums included.

Was thinking the moderation would be like here or used to be before 1224 finally took over communications. Posts moderated AFTER posting for compliance to terms of service and not BEFORE where you get censored, deleted, or ignored for post approval as has been going on at Atlas media.

 

In other words.....

 

Spot on, Talon.

 

It is not easy to come on to this forum and debate topics because as soon as one disagrees with the few that have hijacked this forum to further the union talking points they get piled on and labeled all the while not disagreeing with the points per se but rather just tempering the hysteria.

It seems as though mudslinging is a one way affair.

If you sift through Suddens rant a bit, what he is saying is that the union is engaging in a tried and true political tactic by controlling the narrative and doling out to the masses their narrow message by strictly limiting the media outlets.

I don't personally agree with any representative of mine to limit my voice by taking away my ability to post or voice my opinion without the fear of reprisal. That is why you will not see anyone disagree with the posters on GCComms and the last time I checked it is not 1600+ pilots that are posting, it is at best a small fraction of our total pilot group. The previous 1224 forums operational philosophy was changed EXACTLY because there were those that disagreed with the union message and they were being censored.

It is easy to go back through this thread and take an inventory of the handful of named individuals that have ramped up the "increasingly rancorous rhetoric". It is their opinion that things at Atlas have changed for the worse and coincidentally it came at exactly the time that negotiations began. These handful of people don't speak for me or the union. They speak for themselves alone as this is an anonymous forum. So one could perhaps surmise that they are union plants furthering the union message.......or they are just lemmings and have miserable lives.

Either way, I agree that we need a much better contract and the company does need to do a better job engaging in this negotiation process. The company is stalling....as expected.

 

So, we know what message the company is sending.

And we know what message the union is sending.

What exactly is your message? What are you trying to say?

To me, it sounds like: "The company is mean and nasty with all their stall tactics. And the union is mean and nasty trying to get everyone else to be mean and nasty back to the company. But I'm not mean and nasty, I'm just happy to be flying a 747."

Ok, fine. It's not all doom and gloom from your seat. But what can you hope to accomplish with that sort of "satisfaction"? If you're happy enough then nothing ever changes, and there's nothing wrong with that, per se, but a lot of other people who are working really hard to improve things might just say, "If you're happy and satisfied with the status quo, then just sit back, go to work and enjoy the improvements that come ever so slowly to the whole group."

You know, basically, lead, follow or get out of the way!