I don't think anybody is encouraging foreign labor to fly here beyond the E3 visa program. That program has been in place for a long while and, I'd argue, is appropriate given our relationship with Qantas flying from HNL. Where we see something new is the great drive to recruit from Australia with roadshows, etc. Here still, I wouldn't get too much heartburn because there's a limited number of pilots who are going to relocate across the planet and fly for us in the long term. This is not a strategic masterstroke.

This doesn't mean I'm happy that we're going on road shows while turning away viable, American pilots. We may not be acting in line with the spirit of these visas. That would be something for your representative, senator or others to look into. Tracking who's getting rejected by Atlas may be a valuable thing for us to do.

As long as we don't go beyond E-3 programs I personally favor vigilant inaction. Massive changes in ownership are on the horizon. We haven't seen any changes in leadership announced, but nobody in their right mind would announce major organizational changes until the Apollo deal closes. Even if we retain the same people in the same seats, their motivations will fundamentally shift under new ownership. Once we get an idea of who and what we'll be working with we can move forward productively.

I will be looking forward to starting with Atlas and a long prosperous career with them.

I know it sounds corny, but have thought about Atlas for a long while as well as freight operations. One of my first jobs was freight and looking forward to that role again.

It is simply not an opportunity available in Oz. If a great company like Atlas is now available, I would be crazy not to take the opportunity.

All the best for everyone. Take care.

Servo

Servo ..... mate... no one knows what RPT means outside of Australia for a start... its a very Ozzie term . Here its a 121 operation.

Also as per INA Sec. 214(b) INA Sec. 214(b) be careful about publicly stating you have intent to be here permanently when getting the E3 visa. Yes its possible with a good immigration attorney, but you could get your visa denied if you imply intent at the outset.

Someone needs to write a quick OZ-US-OZ dictionary. Roster = Schedule, and so on.

As long as the Aussies stay out of the training department, I don't think anyone really cares that much. So far all my internal recs have been hired. If that changes, I might change my mind.

And while we're fine tuning our vocabulary, I'd like to offer this correction in the spirit of "mentoring" people who are new to the screwed up way we arrive at legally binding documents like our "contract".

The contract was never ratified. It could have been! But the company spent hundreds of millions of dollars and six years fighting us to explicitly avoid ratification.

Ratification happens after the document passes a vote by the union membership. Theoretically, the company and union negotiate until reaching a "tentative agreement" (TA). The TA is then put out for a vote. The vote either fails or passes. If the vote passes then the document is ratified.

That's not what happens in real life at Atlas Air. Historically, at Atlas Air, the company buys another operation which triggers a clause in the contract which said the two parties will negotiate for 9 months and then all remaining sections go to a "independent" (ha!) 3rd party arbitrator. Naturally, only the biggest and most important sections would be left remaining.

The arbitrator would then produce a document, bless it, and impose it on the union membership for a length of time to be determined only by him.

Now, as alluded to by Elevation, we may have new owners (deal remains to be done). So, who knows? Maybe business will be done differently in the future.

But that's a short course in the history of labor relations at Atlas Air for anyone who is interested.

Agreed.

Agreed.

Please don't mistake my distain for the E3 program and how it is applied at Atlas for any distain for Australian pilots. Once you're here, you're one of us. The grumblings on the line are totally directed at the company and the program. There is no animosity whatsoever towards the guys (and girls?) that are on line. I certainly don't blame anyone personally for pursing their best possible situation.

While I agree with your post, I do take issue with the Qantas flying making it appropriate. We're an ACMI carrier -- we fly for companies from China, Japan, Germany etc etc etc. By that reasoning, we should be opening hiring worldwide.

The company received approximately 280 RSVP's for a single roadshow. Would like to know how many CJO's came from those 280.

The 280 were simply screened and some have entered the hiring process. There were no CJOs handed out during the road show. It takes two to three months to process an E3 candidate and the numbers joining has not increased dramatically over the last several months.

I want to start by saying that I no longer work for Atlas but having so feel I have the right to respond to notthesame. There is so much wrong with the post I am not sure where to begin but here goes. There are many reasons a pilot may go ex-patriot. In my case it was either get furloughed at TWA or take a chance for a position with SAUDIA with whom they had a contact. The post usually went senior but with the situation at TWA most stayed to protect their positions with the company, I was really lucky to secure time in the Kingdom, With the end of the contract I decided to stay in the Kingdom for personal reasons. Then along came Japan that was looking to expand their TOA Domestic Airline Operation, which later became Japan Air System. To say the least we were not welcomed and the union made it plain by failing 70% of us. We were to be on the contract for 5 years, I stayed 14 because I really loved Japan and the domestic flying, the wife loved Japan, the union finally came around, and the pay was great. As with anything good it had to end and there I was at Polar. Finally got too old and moved on.
Here is the bottom line, don't discourage the Aussies for wanting to come to Atlas on an E3 visa. They may have many reasons, as I had, but one of them is not to take your jobs. Posts like the ones I am seeing can only create a bad atmosphere in the cockpit. Personally I really like the Aussies and their brand of humor and I am sure they are working hard to make a good impression with the "Yanks". They are good people and I am sure good pilots so just get on with it and the international flavor. Who knows, you just might learn something. Just don't get into a game of rugby with them unless you enjoy hurt.

Eloquent post thank you. I believe that most Aussies are trying to make a valuable contribution to the company but also agree worth dera, gotta stay out of training. We complicate flying so much that it stops being fun

There is only one word I need to address in your entire post: contract. You took a contract. Nobody is offering contracts here. There is no contact renewal. You did what was best for you and as i've said repeatedly I have no animosity towards the pilots themselves. The issue I have is this is just another tactic the company is using to artificially keep pay down, and they are abusing a temporary visa program to do it.

I'll ask again: Do you support US airline seniority lists being opened up to ALL pilots, regardless of nationality? And if so, what do you think it will do to our pay?

FedEx isn't sponsoring visas. Delta isn't sponsoring visas. Skywest, Spirit and Atlas are. What does that tell you?

notthesame , while your argument might hold some water were it not for the absolute shortage of crew in the market. From what I can tell aussies are making little to no difference in the current environment. I'm seeing people with the bare minimum 1500 hours in class, sometimes only single engine turbo prop time getting onto the widebody fleets, including people with no jet time making it onto the 74.

Also, Australia is not a cheap country to live, so the Aussies are not akin to cheap labour group happy with sub par wages and conditions because whatever they earn here is a kings ransom in their home country.

Time will tell what happens with other operators and the E-3, or any other visa for that matter because if things keep on going as they are the conversation will be very different further down the track. That is of course of there isn't a complete swing in the market again!

What I will be interested in seeing is when some pilots cotton on to the fact that if their spouse was on an E-3 instead of them, there would be absolutely nothing stopping them from applying to any of the majors as the E-3S (or is it E-3D?) visa isn't tied to an employer and provides full working rights ;)

I see your point. The reason I zero in on the Qantas flying from HNL is that flying in particular saw airplanes stop flying for Qantas as we came online woth the same type on thr same routes using the same callsigns. Other flying, say for Cathay, NCA or others didn't come at direct loss of tails for another carrier.

There were Qantas pilots accusing us of doing exactly to them what Australian labor is being used for here.

As you say, the problem is not with the pilots taking an opportunity.
​​​​​​​

Years ago talked with one of the staff in SYD as to why we were flying for Qantas. As he explained it, it wasn’t that their pilots couldn’t fly HazMat (one of the standard explanations heard in the cockpit) but the fact that while Qantas flew 747s they didn’t have any freighters. And to run a two plane schedule like Atlas has for years and years would require 3 planes for when one was in maintenance or had issues somewhere. Atlas has two dedicated planes but if something happens they’ll send another plane (leave all the spray cans by the L1 door). It didn’t make sense to QF management to have a spare sitting for weekends at a time so they contracted Atlas.

Hello!

Has any 1500hr cfis recently applied for the pathway 737 program? Have you been called yet? How long did it take?

Regards!

I applied under pathway way back in January when I had 870 hours total, never heard anything....

2 days after my ATP/ Type ride at my regional I got a call from Atlas, which was July 29th.

Not sure why I got called when I did but that was my experience.

Did you update your application after you passed your checkride?

They don’t call you Austronauts for nothing!!

Totally. For brevity I'm simplifying complex relationship and history between nations and companies, and I'm doing so clumsily. We were a convenient solution to a problem that would have had airplanes and pilots stay on QF payroll. They had planes that were down for maintenance and some inefficiencies. Ultimately our ability to serve this customer meant those planes didn't come back onto these routes, and those pilots didn't work. I stick with the QF example because our presence directly impacted those pilots. Considering this I think our old use of E-3 is reasonable. Personally I think this if fundamentally different than, say, encouraging Argentinian, Algerian, Andorran or Albanian pilots to come here via some new or expanded visa program.

There are some very big holes in my reasoning. You could take my logic and apply it anywhere we provide flying. AirlineX would have to fly more planes and retain more crew if we weren't around to support their contracts. Also the E-3 program is meant for companies to go on recruiting roadshows while offering lower-than-normal compensation. So it's clear things smell a little funny.

We should probably discuss how our E3 problems relate to what we're doing in Memphis.

Hi all,

Any provision for family paxing on company aircraft?


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Negative. Atlas used to have a "dependent travel" program that was very popular. But apparently after 9/11 the TSA and FAA shut it down as a security threat.

I assume you are from Australia?

No, in the US you can not have non-CASS (read: crewmembers and very few selected and screened people) to ride on a flight deck. Cargo planes do not have any seats that are not considered FD, so this is not possible.

Confirmed. Thank you, I learn something everyday. That’s why I like this forum


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Some of the reasons we are flying for Qatas was discussed.
Another reason I heard: Qantas looked into to starting freight flying to replace us, since they did have the 747 aircraft. They found out it was very difficult. Just having planes and pilots is one thing. Getting the freight (sales network), where to store it (warehousing), how to get it cross border (Customs), how to get it to/from the airport (ground transport), etc., etc. is quite complicated.

Qantas added a 747 from Atlas, and is now using three 747-400s, is the last I heard.

This process already changed at Atlas. In DEC2021, the company changed the contract so that the language preventing us from voting, if the company merged us with another, has been taken out. The next contract we will get to vote.

Because then he can post on here and other people can see that it's not possible to be hired if you aren't from Australia and don't have green card/passport, and won't be wasting their time.
I have seen nothing official from the company on who they hire. I have heard multiple times from new hires, or potential new hires that they were told something different from what you are saying.

Note: I just looked at the official Atlas Air qualifications for pilots. They require a passport with the ability to travel worldwide, unrestricted. That is all. No mention of US passport, green card, visa...nothing else. If there is a requirement, then HR needs to change the minimum requirements on their hiring page.

“If there is a requirement”. There is a law, that dictates what Atlas can require or not.

You keep saying new hires told me this or that, but again, there is an immigration law any employer must comply with. Plain and simple.

The published minimums are not what they can hire unfortunately.

I would make a million dollars in new hire referrals if they would allow non-Australian non-residents to apply and they could hire them.

You just don’t get it. It is really simple

ONE MUST HAVE THE RIGHT TO WORK IN THE UNITED STATES!!!!

You can’t do this with a French, Panamanian, Canadian, Portuguese Passport.

There are simple ways to get the RIGHT TO WORK IN THE UNITED STATES

A US passport
A Green card
An E-3 visa (only available for Aussies)
Marry an American and get a visa

All the other passports require another type of visa, which is very expensive and takes a really long time to procure.
ATLAS DOES NOT SPONSOR NOR CURRENTLY ENCOURAGE THESE OTHER VISAS.

Hopefully Namaste-man will finally get it. 🤷🏻‍♂️

Qantas does all that. Atlas is ACMI.

I remember hearing about Delta looking at buying us many years ago. Interesting about QF.

A drop in the bucket compared to the millions lost by the pilot group.

A friend of mine was offered a class at both Atlas and Kalitta Air. Which ones better?

Didn’t you ask this exactly one year ago? :D

He has more than one friend. Doing better than me it seems:rolleyes:

It's all kind of the same. Sometimes people leave Kalitta to come to Atlas. Sometimes it's the other way around. Today Atlas is a little bit better than Kalitta, but that could change tomorrow. I'd go with whatever suits your friend's lifestyle more.

I’ll go Atlas > Kalitta but I am biased…..

I think I asked about who’s CBA was better last year. Because I didn’t have any friends then.