Very true, welcome!

I hope they will get the training center up to speed asap. Right now a CJO today means on the line through OE in a year from now.

A deep dive into that “in a year from now” means there could be an amazing amount of change for the good or bad to our operations, compensation, schedules, and so forth aside from hiring madness perhaps. Just crazy to think that the job you applied for might be quite a bit different from the job you get which might be bad but could be also awesome. Perspective is everything and to each their own so “Welcome aboard” to the new folks and may it be better than you thought. If not, plenty of options, best hiring opportunities in history and your time here is a resume builder. Timing IS everything.

Soft time?
 

Thinking about coming over, as I’m single and the wide body lifestyle interests me. I spend most of my days off at my regional traveling to Europe anyway. Just curious about soft time; what people are actually making with pick ups and such, or if it’s hard to get above guarantee. Apologies if it’s been discussed elsewhere, couldn’t find it but would be happy to be pointed to the thread!

The honest answer is probably that it varies widely between fleets, seasons, and staffing levels. Need to be able to make the bills work on min guarantee, but I hear there's been robust opportunities to pick up time and/or make soft pay on the 777 and 747. It does seem like a lot of that was "Covid Premium" - often referred to as "Article 33 flying" for the section of our CBA that covers it. My understanding is that's still going on in China, but that's about it - as opposed to a couple years ago when basically everywhere international paid it. It seems roughly related to whether or not you're locked in your hotel room. The 737, for instance, never had any article 33 flying that I'm aware of.

I wouldn't count on more than 68-75/hrs a month on the 737 or 767, though, and you'll have some 64 hr months. There's a fair amount of opportunity for open time on the 767 (currently) if you live in CVG or ONT. Maybe you can make that work being single. Can't speak to open time on the other fleets as I don't get the notifications.

Covid/Hazard/Art.33 pay still only applies to a handful of destinations. Those glory days are mostly over.
From my own experience you can do anywhere from min garantee 64hrs to 180+ credit hours.
I flew 800+ block in my first year.
You shouldn’t budget on it but 900-1000 credit hours a year is certainly doable.

I would say this applies to the 74 and 77, not the 76. My personal opinion is that 2023 will see a drastically slowing economy. This might affect the flying. Atlas is still among the best places to be in that kind of environment.

180 credit in a month? Can I ask how one would go about that?

Right now if based in ANC, 180-200 hours a month is easy if you pick up aggressively, this will change when China opens up, so perhaps at some point next year. Right now classes and training are so backed up it'll be 8 months from applying to hitting the line, so who knows what the world looks like then.

appreciate the info. How about CJO to class date?

747 classes are full until ~March. 767 mid-Feb. They do have a waitlist for last minute cancellations. Don't have any info about 737 or 777.

Have we lost our participation in the Bose discount program? We used to get 15% off Bose headsets

I believe so, it's off the portal and the way you got it doesn't work anymore.

CFI's get 100$ off if that helps.

Atlas Application+General questions
 

I figured this would be a good place to post this, but I have a question about the Atlas app, and I want to ensure I do it correctly. Filling it out when you get to the logbook submission part says to use the "link at the top of this page to review the logbook submission requirements." This link doesn't exist, so I'm wondering how I should go about this. Anyways I'm about to graduate with my 1000 hours, R-ATP, and a 4-year degree at 21 years old, and Atlas seems super appealing. Any insights as to how life is on the 737, what's the good and the bad, how is upgrade time, how would it stack up compared to Frontier(which I can also apply to through my University at 1000), or a regional carrier?

There are a ton of pages talking about 737 and answering everything, including that pathway program.

The 737 is low stress but low flight time. The good is its all US and we’re all opened up. The bad is it’s all US and low flight time.

We’re also hiring pathways types into the 767 if they show aptitude. I’m in a transition class with a couple of those new hires (initial for them). They’re sharp kids (the 76 pathways folks) and I’m certain they’ll do well in the industry even if they don’t stay. Is that you?

We have 20 some odd 767s and 8 737s.

>>>How does it stack up against Frontier?

Well where do you want to live and what do you want to fly eventually? This is a very personal question and we’re also making a ton of assumptions about how the business models of each carrier will evolve over time (in your case potentially several decades). Heard rumors of LCCs going to Europe soon. We do it with the 767 now along with Asia and you might realistically hold that if you do well as a CFI and in ATP-CTP etc.

Being a unionized worker in a field that is effectively commodity labor with shop seniority is kind of like geopolitics. Sure a worker gets hired, but not all prospective employees are created equal.

Diving back into the analogy: Some people are born in the US (hired at legacies). Some are born in China and some Ukraine (call those LCCs and ACMIs - you can win big but there’s also a large chance of instability and disruption). Some people are born into the Korengal Valley as a woman (some dirtbag 135 or 91 shop that will demand you do illegal stuff or Great Lakes or a Hulas operation).

So you can be born with a silver spoon up your rear or never have a chance, but there’s also a lot of in-between and a lot of unpredictability with the upstarts.

Circling back to the airlines, you make a choice and hope to hell it works out. I got laid off twice, once for an airline closure. With that being said I’d stay the hell away from the regionals. My take is they’re circling the drain.

Can’t help ya with the app, sounds like it was a totally different process for me. You have the advantages of youth and time horizon.

TL;DR: take the first job offer you could see yourself staying at “forever” if you don’t get another choice before a recession hits.

Also, seniority is a form of golden handcuffs.

True statements - Definitely don’t want to be hanging in the wind when the music stops and/stuck in a miserable position. Golden handcuffs is pure gold and so many during the lost decade predominantly and understandably were subject to this. I can only imagine that was a truly trying situation compared to this past decade. Everyone has a cut and run point or pain threshold if you will. As the years roll seniority gains, schedules tend to get better, pay bumps happen, security increases, etc. (normally - aside from delayed contracts, takeovers, doors closing, etc.) Cuffs begin to tighten so here’s to folks finding their true dream job and the term job hopefully doesn’t apply.

I had the same question - I just created a single .pdf of my first and last entries of each flying job and that seemed to be acceptable, as I got an email within 2 days from a recruiter asking to schedule a time for a phone call.

The issue I’m having now is that I can’t seem to get any response from the recruiter after I’ve replied to two emails now which asked for my availability…I’m wondering if my emails are ending up in the spam folder. Anyone else having similar issues?

If you leave the login page for the app and go to your dashboard it is there. I asked the same question a few months ago.

Curious, what’s a DCH-7?

I think he meant a DHC-7. It's like a 4-engine Dash-8. Pretty popular in Greenland. You'll see them meeting big planes at Sondrestrom Fjord.
https://www.airliners.net/photo/Air-...Dash-7/2412033

Ah Canada, makes total sense. Search did say “did you mean DHC-7?” Thx!

737 Class
 

Hello all! New to the site and the company.

I've heard rumors that classes are being sent home in between blocks of training. I start the 737 class on 7 Feb and am hoping to get a better grip on what a realistic expectation of the training timeline is. Will the flow still be backed up and taking 6-7 months when I arrive in February? Or is it working itself out as we speak and trending on a more normal timeline of 2 -3 months of previous years?

I apologize if this has been covered. I've scoured pages of these threads and didn't see it.

I am not so sure about how backed up the 73 is but the scale of that fleet isn't such that I would anticipate absolutely huge back ups in training. It's really jacked up on the 74 and 76 though. Last I heard the 76 class that is starting now will do a week of indoc and then be sent home until April. I hope that is just a stupid schoolhouse rumor. In any case the 73 isn't going to be a time builder regardless. So if Atlas is where you want to be welcome! But if this is looking like a stepping stone to you I would looking elsewhere to build time faster because it will probably take you over two years to get 1000 hours from date of hire.

Agreed on the time building aspect. I don't need to build time so no worries for me, but I am on the 747. I just looked at my flight times to date from when I started. In 20 months since start date, I have logged 901 total hours. That is averaging 45 hours a month on the 747. If I take out the training months in MIA, it averages right around 53 hours per month.

Definitely something to think about if you are a low time guy just wanting to build time. This isn't the place.

Low time folks trying to build time quickly should definitely consider other venues like the regionals, etc. On the other hand one must definitely be cognizant of the current environment and do their best to forecast where they may have to lie in wait if or when a slowdown may occur in the near, far or hopefully not so much in the future. No one knows exactly what lies ahead but there are a few signs already beginning to show. Choose whatever meets your career priorities as best as you can and be aware you may sit for a bit longer than originally planned and may it be in a decent place. Delta has been smart to recently offer mil folks the opportunity to apply, interview and be granted a CJO upon their retirement within two years of their discharge papers supposedly (or within one year for those just leaving I believe) which creates a soft landing outside of the military and fills class dates with some talent ahead of other outfits. American perhaps is working on the same approach, others may follow suit. On the flip side it seems Purple may have stopped training/opportunities on the MD11/A300 and no MEM77FO slots as they mentioned on their forum recently. Brown is seeing a shift as well in some areas perhaps as well from what they’re mentioning. Just my 2 cents, but take a look around the forums sporadically on topics that may have impact on your endeavors and get a bigger picture. Position yourself as best as possible, don’t stovepipe yourself and do the best for you with all the info you can gather. Cargo will have a cleaner picture after peak and early next year. It’s all up in the air.

*Plenty of early takers of retirement at the early stages of the viral debacle at the Majors and with consistent ongoing retirements it doesn’t seem things will slow to a trickle, but these decisions are well above anyones pay grade on APC. Overall, airlines continue to hire until they don’t.

This is a big reason why I chose to come to Atlas a few months ago with these troubling macro-economic factors. Although not my ideal final destination, not a bad place to be stuck if the music stops. Certainly much better than a regional both in pay and quality of life. I don't need hours though, I just need to get flying again after 5+ years out sailing.

Can confirm, not a rumor.

Though being on full pay for 4-5 months and having the potential of earning some extra $$ elsewhere while waiting/studying isn't necessarily a bad thing!

Well….you heard wrong.
You’re not on full pay, you’re on Minimum Monthly Garantee and that is 30-50% less of what you would make if you’re flying the line.

Only if you’re flying the 77/74

Please explain how MMG isn't full pay?

Semantics, I think it is reasonable to assume "full pay" was in comparison to many airlines that give training pay during training instead of MMG. Do you think that your 30-50% applies to 73 or 76?. Look at the bid lines and you'll see that you are wrong.

Are you out of training yet?

Some people want to shade everything negatively here. Honestly if they got handed a cartoon bag of money by our CEO they’d complain how heavy it is.

True dat, while there are a lot of folks that are content here, there are some that make it a purpose to be negative. This will likely never change.

So true and I don’t believe I’ve ever tested positive for negative, especially here (to be honest, when you feel the negative side rear it’s head don’t let it bleed out). Good, bad or ugly just state the facts. Everyone has different priorities and they are met in different ways and everyone must make their own decisions to fulfill them. Absolutely no excuse for those with half a decade or more of valid information on the net. Best litmus test is just to look around when walking thru terminals, cargo bays, crew vans, hotel lobby’s, hotel shuttles, restaurants, where our industry is primarily found. It’s amazing what you can pickup visually as well as concrete evidence talking to crews on how life is on the other side. We are a very peculiar bunch and have a lot to say including my opining self obviously. Every outfit has their naysayers or inflator mice who are unsatisfied with their outcome or disguise it with obscene grandeur of how great it is. Unfortunately it’s in our DNA to cover, gripe or mob think at times. Facebook as an example in the common world is a major tool for others to attempt to make you feel like crap about your life or situation. Don’t buy into it or at least do your homework. If you are looking for serious answers, approach it as if faced with a medical crisis - one should always seek a 2nd, 3rd, 4th, etc. opinion.It’s your one life, Be Good!

In regards to the “potential of earning some extra $$ elsewhere”. I was also hoping to do this during my training break, but the handbook is pretty clear that it is a pain in the ass and at this point would rather just fly under the radar and take my minimum guarantee. Any time you have to ask permission to do outside work from the legal department I feel you are just asking for trouble. Pg. 58 of employee handbook under outside employment for reference.

Far from a pain. It's very easy. You just email them.

And I would also think they would be happy to have you flying during a long break like that. Better to keep your currency than be totally cold when you come back for the sims.

Super easy to do a quick email to the CP. Unless you're flying a lot there should be no problems.