If this is the case, why is Southern Air calling me and Atlas isn't! Haha I must be below the bottom of the barrel.

 

Me too lol!!!

 

Of the 14 737 upgrades 8 were 737 FOs. Only 6 777 FOs took the bait.
I had my bid in. I need that PIC time. After a long conversation with two current 737 CAs (that started with, "you've got how much TPIC? Dude, you have to bid it."), it became obvious to me that the conditions there are unacceptable.
Apart from the pay cut, the duty periods are worse, days off are regularly one at a time, on weekends with a very limited pax schedule out of CVG, and NO DHL ops. There is no DL jump seat agreement - with no real indication of any progress, no AA jump seat agreement - and the likelihood of US going away as that merger is complete, I already have had trouble getting a confirmed seat with paid tickets on UAL - twice this year I've been bumped due to overbooked flights. The company is now punishing those who can not get to work with disciplinary write ups. My commute without DL will always be two legs through ORD, NYC, DC, or PHL. I did that years ago as an RJ guy, on company metal, and found it stressful at best. Training is no cake walk, as busts are appalling common.

All that for less than 50 hours a month for my logbook. A senior 737 check airman wrote me: "I am counting down the months and days until I am eligible to bid FO on the 777!"

And management blames the crews for all the problems.

 

"There are always bottom feeders that will take the job."

That was then, this is now.

This thread illustrates the growing pilot shortage. Southern cannot crew the planes the committed to. Atlas could EASILY crew those airframes....IF they paid 777 rates!!!

 

Stanimal & johnny150,

Atlas hired a bunch of RJ guys in the last few years. And lost many of them to the majors. Now they seem to be grabbing supplemental guys who already know what the gig is.

Its still night freight, but 17 days on is a different beast altogether.

 

Southernair would have people falling all over themselves to crew those 737s - at the pathetic rates they offer, if home basing was available. But they refuse to consider it.


I really worry that management's pigheadedness on this issue will cause us to go out of business before the investors have a chance to fire them.

 

Quite to the contrary, this proves there is not a pilot shortage. If someone took a hard look at what DHL pays pilots to move their cargo, I would bet the number is far less today than 10 years ago. What this does say is that there is a floor at where no pilot will take the job. Southern will just just slightly raise the T&C (if they can under the current contract) until they fill the seats. If not, another contractor will come in slightly higher until the planes fly.

FWIW, World Airways had bid on the B737 contract. Our guys had said that Southern had low balled the bid, below cost. It was figured at the time that the strategy was to low ball and then ask for more money when the planes couldn't move. It looks like Southern will be calling DHL and asking for more money.

In the end, the freight will fly and it will fly cheaper than it did in years past.

 

What do they plan on doing with Florida west? Will they be doing hiring for them?

 

I have to agree with jonnypropjet here, and I continue to believe that the notion of a pilot shortage remains a myth. There are still plenty of very experienced pilots looking for work. Airlines will always be able to find pilots if they are willing to lower their hiring standards. New pilots coming into the system will work for little pay to get their start, I don't blame them, it works. If you happen to be a guy trying to make a career at an Kalitta or a SA, you will live with this revolving door policy. That can lead to the Capt assshole syndrome when in reality, it's just self preservation.

 

The DHL B737 contract was awarded as "Cost Plus". Meaning DHL takes the risk on the airframe/engines and the operator is paid a profit margin above and beyond what it costs to operate them. I've heard the "Plus" $ portion of the contract from management and it is not very much. I won't post details on a public forum so don't ask me to. Management's goal is to make money through a larger scale operation rather then through the current 4-5 B737's. Also, the "Plus" portion is also low enough that no other carrier really wants it. DHL got what they wanted.

The "Plus" portion is low enough that it would not cover the additional cost of home basing or a large pay raise unless management is willing to use profits from the B777 side of the house to cover shortages on the B737 side. I've heard it stated (paraphrasing a bit) "The B737 job is in CVG. If you choose to live somewhere else that is your choice". Everyone that bid onto the B737 program did so willingly. Whether they realized what they were bidding into or not is probably variable between individuals.

Many pilots at SAI tried to explain to their fellow pilots what a $hit sandwich the B737 LOA would turn into and to vote NO! Obviously, not enough of the pilot group listened. Yes, we needed the business. However, a "NO" vote might have forced management to squeeze DHL for a bit more which might have sweetened the pot with home basing or something else.

The DHL B737 flying is what it is. I would not expect any major changes. If you bid onto the B737, or you are a new hire and accept that airframe, simply know what you are getting into.

Where was 1224 in all of this? Oh....now I remember....they loaned us their "economist" to help work out the LOA prior to the vote and had our MEC hoodwinked into thinking this would save pilot jobs at SAI. He's gone now and all 1224 carriers are stuck with this lowball airframe.

For the right pilot the B737 job might be a good deal. It is/has been a stepping stone for pilots to get some Guppy time and quickly move on. It's not a good way to get to the 777. You will be equipment locked on the B737 for 3 years before you can transition to the B777. The exception would be for an upgrade to B777 CA and there are lots of senior B777 FO's ahead of you making that scenario unlikely.