Southern Air Interview
05-02-2015 | 08:35 AM
#321
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 369
Likes: 0
Bird,
I'm frankly getting sick of your condescending tone and refusal to understand the complaints of those here who have a different experience at SAI than you do. First of all, everyone who flies at SAI contributes something to "improve our current conditions and working towards the next contract", if by nothing else simply paying union dues. That's all one needs to do to earn an equal voice. If one volunteers to do more, huzzah. If not that's ok too. SAI eats enough of our life as it is, I respect other people enough to understand that they are all different and have different abilities and needs and demands on their one immutable asset: time.
As for hiding behind keyboards, you are on an anonymous message board. You are no more transparent than anyone else, Mr. Soaper. And clearly you have been nothing but a giver and a builder since you sprang forth from the womb. Stop denigrating other people. You do not have that right just because you have four stripes on your shoulder. (As an aside to everyone considering coming to the 777, most of us were very apprehensive about switching fleets from the 747, because so many of the 777 Captains have reputations as monsters. Not all of them, but more than random chance should allow for.)
I have a great idea: why don't YOU quit? You seem to like the job well enough. Get out of the way and let someone else have a turn. Oh, did that sound unreasonable? Yeah. Yeah it did.
Don't $TFU. You have good information, and share an important perspective on SAI. Its a perspective that very few other people have. That does not make it less valid, but largely irrelevant to others. You ought to remember that your experience at SAI will NOT be the experience anyone else will ever have. No one hired today should ever expect to see the left seat of the 777. No one besides the next 25 guys on the seniority list, at best, will ever see a $200k paycheck. We are not going to grow, there are no plans beyond 777 #5. There are not that many guys who will retire in the next ten years to open up spots for all the former -400 captains, much less anyone else. And given the performance of our management, corporate survival beyond ten years is a bad, bad bet.
I'm frankly getting sick of your condescending tone and refusal to understand the complaints of those here who have a different experience at SAI than you do. First of all, everyone who flies at SAI contributes something to "improve our current conditions and working towards the next contract", if by nothing else simply paying union dues. That's all one needs to do to earn an equal voice. If one volunteers to do more, huzzah. If not that's ok too. SAI eats enough of our life as it is, I respect other people enough to understand that they are all different and have different abilities and needs and demands on their one immutable asset: time.
As for hiding behind keyboards, you are on an anonymous message board. You are no more transparent than anyone else, Mr. Soaper. And clearly you have been nothing but a giver and a builder since you sprang forth from the womb. Stop denigrating other people. You do not have that right just because you have four stripes on your shoulder. (As an aside to everyone considering coming to the 777, most of us were very apprehensive about switching fleets from the 747, because so many of the 777 Captains have reputations as monsters. Not all of them, but more than random chance should allow for.)
I have a great idea: why don't YOU quit? You seem to like the job well enough. Get out of the way and let someone else have a turn. Oh, did that sound unreasonable? Yeah. Yeah it did.
Don't $TFU. You have good information, and share an important perspective on SAI. Its a perspective that very few other people have. That does not make it less valid, but largely irrelevant to others. You ought to remember that your experience at SAI will NOT be the experience anyone else will ever have. No one hired today should ever expect to see the left seat of the 777. No one besides the next 25 guys on the seniority list, at best, will ever see a $200k paycheck. We are not going to grow, there are no plans beyond 777 #5. There are not that many guys who will retire in the next ten years to open up spots for all the former -400 captains, much less anyone else. And given the performance of our management, corporate survival beyond ten years is a bad, bad bet.
05-02-2015 | 09:45 AM
#322
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,183
Likes: 0
From: 777, sofa
And we need to stop using the excuse "Its Southern, you should have known better." Or "You don't like it, there's the door." That is Bull sheiße. We have all put in time here. We all deserve to be treated better, and compensated better. A 777 Captain at Southern is as much a master of his craft as any UA or EK Captain is. And deserves the same respect. A 777 FO at Southern has the same training as his Captain, he just has less opportunity to practice his skills, as well as having to deal with conflicting advice and expectations from every different Captain he flies with.
Southern is now flies exclusively for DHL. DHL is a direct competitor with UPS and FedEx. It is not outrageous to ask to be compensated on par with those carriers. Yes, yes, I know: whipsaws, subcontractors, alter-ego companies, legal history, difficult contract negotiations, bargaining chips, etc. That's all bull sheiße too. I fly a 777 carrying express parcels around the world. As does FedEx. Same job, same product for the consumer, at a similar cost to the consumer, providing similar revenues for the parent company. There is no legitimate reason I am not compensated on par with my peers at purple and brown.
Anything less than that is unacceptable.
Anyone saying its not is selling themselves, and all the rest of us, short.
05-02-2015 | 10:13 AM
#323
New Hire
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 8
Likes: 0
The majority of us completely agree that we deserve much better at Southern.
Look at what The Atlas crews are doing to fight for a better contract.
I listen to the discussions at Atlas and ABX in CVG. We only need to get on the same page. Quit Retire or Fight for a better contract, accepting the status Quo
is unacceptable given the current environment.
Look at what The Atlas crews are doing to fight for a better contract.
I listen to the discussions at Atlas and ABX in CVG. We only need to get on the same page. Quit Retire or Fight for a better contract, accepting the status Quo
is unacceptable given the current environment.
05-02-2015 | 10:13 AM
#324
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 466
Likes: 0
From: Left Seat
Did you, the SAI pilots, agree to the lower pay rates for the 737? So the SAI pilots agreed to lower their pay to get work. BAD KARMA. Next, they will need to lower the 777 pay to hang onto the DHL contract or keep the planes on SAI's cert vs their new airline. Good luck.
05-02-2015 | 12:42 PM
#325
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 106
Likes: 0
Bird,
I'm frankly getting sick of your condescending tone and refusal to understand the complaints of those here who have a different experience at SAI than you do. First of all, everyone who flies at SAI contributes something to "improve our current conditions and working towards the next contract", if by nothing else simply paying union dues. That's all one needs to do to earn an equal voice. If one volunteers to do more, huzzah. If not that's ok too. SAI eats enough of our life as it is, I respect other people enough to understand that they are all different and have different abilities and needs and demands on their one immutable asset: time.
As for hiding behind keyboards, you are on an anonymous message board. You are no more transparent than anyone else, Mr. Soaper. And clearly you have been nothing but a giver and a builder since you sprang forth from the womb. Stop denigrating other people. You do not have that right just because you have four stripes on your shoulder. (As an aside to everyone considering coming to the 777, most of us were very apprehensive about switching fleets from the 747, because so many of the 777 Captains have reputations as monsters. Not all of them, but more than random chance should allow for.)
I have a great idea: why don't YOU quit? You seem to like the job well enough. Get out of the way and let someone else have a turn. Oh, did that sound unreasonable? Yeah. Yeah it did.
Don't $TFU. You have good information, and share an important perspective on SAI. Its a perspective that very few other people have. That does not make it less valid, but largely irrelevant to others. You ought to remember that your experience at SAI will NOT be the experience anyone else will ever have. No one hired today should ever expect to see the left seat of the 777. No one besides the next 25 guys on the seniority list, at best, will ever see a $200k paycheck. We are not going to grow, there are no plans beyond 777 #5. There are not that many guys who will retire in the next ten years to open up spots for all the former -400 captains, much less anyone else. And given the performance of our management, corporate survival beyond ten years is a bad, bad bet.
I'm frankly getting sick of your condescending tone and refusal to understand the complaints of those here who have a different experience at SAI than you do. First of all, everyone who flies at SAI contributes something to "improve our current conditions and working towards the next contract", if by nothing else simply paying union dues. That's all one needs to do to earn an equal voice. If one volunteers to do more, huzzah. If not that's ok too. SAI eats enough of our life as it is, I respect other people enough to understand that they are all different and have different abilities and needs and demands on their one immutable asset: time.
As for hiding behind keyboards, you are on an anonymous message board. You are no more transparent than anyone else, Mr. Soaper. And clearly you have been nothing but a giver and a builder since you sprang forth from the womb. Stop denigrating other people. You do not have that right just because you have four stripes on your shoulder. (As an aside to everyone considering coming to the 777, most of us were very apprehensive about switching fleets from the 747, because so many of the 777 Captains have reputations as monsters. Not all of them, but more than random chance should allow for.)
I have a great idea: why don't YOU quit? You seem to like the job well enough. Get out of the way and let someone else have a turn. Oh, did that sound unreasonable? Yeah. Yeah it did.
Don't $TFU. You have good information, and share an important perspective on SAI. Its a perspective that very few other people have. That does not make it less valid, but largely irrelevant to others. You ought to remember that your experience at SAI will NOT be the experience anyone else will ever have. No one hired today should ever expect to see the left seat of the 777. No one besides the next 25 guys on the seniority list, at best, will ever see a $200k paycheck. We are not going to grow, there are no plans beyond 777 #5. There are not that many guys who will retire in the next ten years to open up spots for all the former -400 captains, much less anyone else. And given the performance of our management, corporate survival beyond ten years is a bad, bad bet.
HOWEVER, instead of taking an Upgrade you are CHOOSING to remain a gear puller? Why? You will not see the 777 left seat for a long, long time if ever. 737 Upgrade pay and what you make now as a 777 FO are about equal so that is not an excuse. So what is your excuse? Difficult jumpseating? Ok, but that might be the sacrifice you need to make to move up the career ladder? What is holding you back from upgrade? New guys are being hired monthly and they will quickly pass you by and you will still be waiting for someone senior to you to "Quit"?
I have the skills, experience, and resume to be easily worth $100k a year more doing the same job at a Legacy. However, due to the seniority system in place I'd need to start over at $40-50k a year, commuting several times a month, living too many days in a crappy crash pad, flying hub turns, and a decade or more later maybe be able to move back into an equivalent position that I hold now. When I pencil out the years left and the benefits of moving on it's just not much of a temptation. If I was in my 30's it would be a no brainer. Later in life it's a more difficult choice. That is the situation for most senior captains at the Supplementals. All of you young guys who are riding the current hiring wave consider yourself lucky. You probably won't have another 9/11, age 65, and Great Recession affecting your career progression.
Robthree, now is the time for you to prove you have the skills to upgrade, become an instructor/Checkairman, and move on like many others are doing. Stop complaining and just do it.
I will agree we need/deserve more. We are stuck under a crappy contract and have little negotiating power to make major changes. I do more than "pay dues" to help all of us obtain better pay/work rules or make the job easier in the meantime by fixing operational issues. I don't feel I'm entitled to just let someone else do the hard work. I'm willing to contribute and could point to many, many items I have influenced.
If you think I'm a "monster" for pointing out what is probably obvious to most reading our little tiff then so be it! Complaining on APC does nothing! If you just want to sit back and wait for someone to give you more because you feel entitled to it and you are not willing to do more then yap on a board like this...then yes.....you really need to just $TFU and keep cooking my crewmeals and making coffee.
05-02-2015 | 01:09 PM
#326
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 369
Likes: 0
Fegel, Thanks for the sentiment, but that is just as destructive and divisive as Bird demeaning anyone who feels SAI isn't treating us well enough. We need to stop putting each other down.
And we need to stop using the excuse "Its Southern, you should have known better." Or "You don't like it, there's the door." That is Bull sheiße. We have all put in time here. We all deserve to be treated better, and compensated better. A 777 Captain at Southern is as much a master of his craft as any UA or EK Captain is. And deserves the same respect. A 777 FO at Southern has the same training as his Captain, he just has less opportunity to practice his skills, as well as having to deal with conflicting advice and expectations from every different Captain he flies with.
Southern is now flies exclusively for DHL. DHL is a direct competitor with UPS and FedEx. It is not outrageous to ask to be compensated on par with those carriers. Yes, yes, I know: whipsaws, subcontractors, alter-ego companies, legal history, difficult contract negotiations, bargaining chips, etc. That's all bull sheiße too. I fly a 777 carrying express parcels around the world. As does FedEx. Same job, same product for the consumer, at a similar cost to the consumer, providing similar revenues for the parent company. There is no legitimate reason I am not compensated on par with my peers at purple and brown.
Anything less than that is unacceptable.
Anyone saying its not is selling themselves, and all the rest of us, short.
And we need to stop using the excuse "Its Southern, you should have known better." Or "You don't like it, there's the door." That is Bull sheiße. We have all put in time here. We all deserve to be treated better, and compensated better. A 777 Captain at Southern is as much a master of his craft as any UA or EK Captain is. And deserves the same respect. A 777 FO at Southern has the same training as his Captain, he just has less opportunity to practice his skills, as well as having to deal with conflicting advice and expectations from every different Captain he flies with.
Southern is now flies exclusively for DHL. DHL is a direct competitor with UPS and FedEx. It is not outrageous to ask to be compensated on par with those carriers. Yes, yes, I know: whipsaws, subcontractors, alter-ego companies, legal history, difficult contract negotiations, bargaining chips, etc. That's all bull sheiße too. I fly a 777 carrying express parcels around the world. As does FedEx. Same job, same product for the consumer, at a similar cost to the consumer, providing similar revenues for the parent company. There is no legitimate reason I am not compensated on par with my peers at purple and brown.
Anything less than that is unacceptable.
Anyone saying its not is selling themselves, and all the rest of us, short.
That's the rub. You are not peers with FedEx and UPS. They are only peers with each other. You, on the other hand, are peers with all the other ACMI and CMI carriers. Now, if DHL were able to change the law and actually buy SAI and make them their own wholly owned carrier, then you would be peers with FedEx and UPS.
05-02-2015 | 01:18 PM
#327
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 369
Likes: 0
Fegel, Thanks for the sentiment, but that is just as destructive and divisive as Bird demeaning anyone who feels SAI isn't treating us well enough. We need to stop putting each other down.
And we need to stop using the excuse "Its Southern, you should have known better." Or "You don't like it, there's the door." That is Bull sheiße. We have all put in time here. We all deserve to be treated better, and compensated better. A 777 Captain at Southern is as much a master of his craft as any UA or EK Captain is. And deserves the same respect. A 777 FO at Southern has the same training as his Captain, he just has less opportunity to practice his skills, as well as having to deal with conflicting advice and expectations from every different Captain he flies with.
Southern is now flies exclusively for DHL. DHL is a direct competitor with UPS and FedEx. It is not outrageous to ask to be compensated on par with those carriers. Yes, yes, I know: whipsaws, subcontractors, alter-ego companies, legal history, difficult contract negotiations, bargaining chips, etc. That's all bull sheiße too. I fly a 777 carrying express parcels around the world. As does FedEx. Same job, same product for the consumer, at a similar cost to the consumer, providing similar revenues for the parent company. There is no legitimate reason I am not compensated on par with my peers at purple and brown.
Anything less than that is unacceptable.
Anyone saying its not is selling themselves, and all the rest of us, short.
And we need to stop using the excuse "Its Southern, you should have known better." Or "You don't like it, there's the door." That is Bull sheiße. We have all put in time here. We all deserve to be treated better, and compensated better. A 777 Captain at Southern is as much a master of his craft as any UA or EK Captain is. And deserves the same respect. A 777 FO at Southern has the same training as his Captain, he just has less opportunity to practice his skills, as well as having to deal with conflicting advice and expectations from every different Captain he flies with.
Southern is now flies exclusively for DHL. DHL is a direct competitor with UPS and FedEx. It is not outrageous to ask to be compensated on par with those carriers. Yes, yes, I know: whipsaws, subcontractors, alter-ego companies, legal history, difficult contract negotiations, bargaining chips, etc. That's all bull sheiße too. I fly a 777 carrying express parcels around the world. As does FedEx. Same job, same product for the consumer, at a similar cost to the consumer, providing similar revenues for the parent company. There is no legitimate reason I am not compensated on par with my peers at purple and brown.
Anything less than that is unacceptable.
Anyone saying its not is selling themselves, and all the rest of us, short.
05-02-2015 | 02:39 PM
#328
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,183
Likes: 0
From: 777, sofa
Because I have one vote. And a Union is a democracy. So I try to communicate my views to other voters to convince them that they deserve more.
Delta connection pilots are peers with mainline pilots, they just don't realize it. Or think its just easier to buy in to the system because one day they too can fly a mainline jet.
The only argument that they are not peers is because they fly different scale equipment to different destinations. Destinations that would otherwise not be served.
As both Southern and FedEx fly 777 from HKG to their US hub, that argument does not hold true either. It costs the customer about $200 to ship from HKG to the US on either carrier, but FedEx pilots make about twice what I do. Same plane, same route, same revenue. Half the gross pay, and lets not even start with benefits.
Where did the money go? That's the real question.
Delta connection pilots are peers with mainline pilots, they just don't realize it. Or think its just easier to buy in to the system because one day they too can fly a mainline jet.
The only argument that they are not peers is because they fly different scale equipment to different destinations. Destinations that would otherwise not be served.
As both Southern and FedEx fly 777 from HKG to their US hub, that argument does not hold true either. It costs the customer about $200 to ship from HKG to the US on either carrier, but FedEx pilots make about twice what I do. Same plane, same route, same revenue. Half the gross pay, and lets not even start with benefits.
Where did the money go? That's the real question.
05-02-2015 | 03:13 PM
#329
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,183
Likes: 0
From: 777, sofa
Bird,
Still going with the "I'm better than you, so $*** it" vibe?
Okay, say I do decide to tell my family my career is more important than time with them and take 737 Captain and Check airman gig, and in no time at all get my dream job at my favorite legacy carrier. Yipee I won!!!!!
But Southern Air is still going to need 777 FOs, and they are still going to be abused, because no one ever stopped and said its not ok. Surely you are not. All that time you've spent to make our life better at SAI must apply only to Captains, because you appear to have no regard at all for your FOs. Arrogance and lack of empathy are the hallmarks of those who were described as monsters. And in this thread at least you sure are scoring extra bonus points in both categories.
This thread is about SAI hiring new FOs. You are giving potential applicants valuable insight into the culture here. As a FO, your contribution is not valued. You are meat in the seat to comply with those pesky regulations. Captain America can fly this plane around the world all by himself, so once hired keep your mouth shut and do exactly as he says. And if you don't like it you can quit.
Still going with the "I'm better than you, so $*** it" vibe?
Okay, say I do decide to tell my family my career is more important than time with them and take 737 Captain and Check airman gig, and in no time at all get my dream job at my favorite legacy carrier. Yipee I won!!!!!
But Southern Air is still going to need 777 FOs, and they are still going to be abused, because no one ever stopped and said its not ok. Surely you are not. All that time you've spent to make our life better at SAI must apply only to Captains, because you appear to have no regard at all for your FOs. Arrogance and lack of empathy are the hallmarks of those who were described as monsters. And in this thread at least you sure are scoring extra bonus points in both categories.
This thread is about SAI hiring new FOs. You are giving potential applicants valuable insight into the culture here. As a FO, your contribution is not valued. You are meat in the seat to comply with those pesky regulations. Captain America can fly this plane around the world all by himself, so once hired keep your mouth shut and do exactly as he says. And if you don't like it you can quit.
Last edited by robthree; 05-02-2015 at 03:56 PM.
05-02-2015 | 03:49 PM
#330
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 369
Likes: 0
Because I have one vote. And a Union is a democracy. So I try to communicate my views to other voters to convince them that they deserve more.
Delta connection pilots are peers with mainline pilots, they just don't realize it. Or think its just easier to buy in to the system because one day they too can fly a mainline jet.
The only argument that they are not peers is because they fly different scale equipment to different destinations. Destinations that would otherwise not be served.
As both Southern and FedEx fly 777 from HKG to their US hub, that argument does not hold true either. It costs the customer about $200 to ship from HKG to the US on either carrier, but FedEx pilots make about twice what I do. Same plane, same route, same revenue. Half the gross pay, and lets not even start with benefits.
Where did the money go? That's the real question.
Delta connection pilots are peers with mainline pilots, they just don't realize it. Or think its just easier to buy in to the system because one day they too can fly a mainline jet.
The only argument that they are not peers is because they fly different scale equipment to different destinations. Destinations that would otherwise not be served.
As both Southern and FedEx fly 777 from HKG to their US hub, that argument does not hold true either. It costs the customer about $200 to ship from HKG to the US on either carrier, but FedEx pilots make about twice what I do. Same plane, same route, same revenue. Half the gross pay, and lets not even start with benefits.
Where did the money go? That's the real question.
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