Atlas Purchases Southern Air
02-06-2016, 05:30 PM
#171
Tuk er jerbs!
Joined APC: Mar 2007
Position: B747 Left
Posts: 1,342
Originally Posted by Diesel8
And you believe what they say? I'll believe it when I see it in print - from Atlas management.
McCaskill-Bond. Yeah, that's an easy read. Fairly difficult to find anything that is definitive in that stuff, not to say that it could be of some benefit, though the AA - TWA thing is still a train wreck.
NMB Single Carrier Status - this is a possible solution, have seen some Teamsters documents regarding this issue. The thing here is time and expense.
Quick perusal of the SAI CBA shows "merger" only, and is considered such only if the operations/infrastructure are taken up the successor company. If SAI remains standalone, this is a moot point. Lots of holes in that one.
Gotta go, have a show time.
McCaskill-Bond. Yeah, that's an easy read. Fairly difficult to find anything that is definitive in that stuff, not to say that it could be of some benefit, though the AA - TWA thing is still a train wreck.
NMB Single Carrier Status - this is a possible solution, have seen some Teamsters documents regarding this issue. The thing here is time and expense.
Quick perusal of the SAI CBA shows "merger" only, and is considered such only if the operations/infrastructure are taken up the successor company. If SAI remains standalone, this is a moot point. Lots of holes in that one.
Gotta go, have a show time.
Maybe they have another plan, but right now, the information we have is that there's an intention to merge the two lists. It makes the most sense, and any other theory about running separate entities is only a theory.
02-06-2016, 06:32 PM
#172
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2007
Position: 747
Posts: 1,290
Originally Posted by Diesel8
Had wrote a more detailed post, regarding all of this - got lost while trying to post it. In short:
So, discussing possible 737 pay rates at this point is rather a moot point.
- Atlas has no intention of integrating the companies. "Merger" is never mentioned, only "acquisition" and "subsidiary". Are acquisitions and subsidiaries covered in any CBA, or is this a legal interpretation issue?
- SAI was under-represented in the first meeting. They are seen as being totally irrelevant. The SAI MEC rolled over to the whims of the 1224 and Atlas union. Atlas management sees the only purpose of the SAI union presence, as an opportunity to whipsaw the Atlas union with the threat of CBA "amalgamation".
- It is not fiscally expedient to run both companies together. SAI operational costs are just too cheap to pass up. Why would Atlas purchase them and immediately move to a more expensive operational model?
- Any rhetoric from Atlas to the contrary is a red herring (alluding to integration in the future), used in an effort to stall or irreputably damage the ability of the Atlas union to effectively negotiate their CBA
- Atlas management is constantly stating that this deal is still predicated on DOT and other entity approval and that it is no where close to being finalized or realized. I doubt that it is their true intent to purchase Southern... unless they get to run it completely separately into perpetuity.
- If the purchase is ever finalized, unless the Teamsters/1224 can force an immediate integration which might not be legally possible, we are all collectively scr*wed.
So, discussing possible 737 pay rates at this point is rather a moot point.
Remain calm for chrissake. We're professional pilots here and we're supposed to have a better grip on emergency situations than running in circles shouting that the sky is falling.
Sheesh ...
8
02-07-2016, 04:54 AM
#173
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2008
Position: Knuckle-dragging line pilot
Posts: 943
[QUOTE=longhauler;2063795]I found what you are talking about, that's great, you're stuck at first year pay for three years, much better. 
Nope. Don't forget the $0.45 raise in year three.
Nope. Don't forget the $0.45 raise in year three.
02-07-2016, 07:15 AM
#174
He who lies first, wins!
Joined APC: Feb 2007
Position: back in the saddle with sores!
Posts: 546
Originally Posted by DC8DRIVER
Remain calm for chrissake. We're professional pilots here and we're supposed to have a better grip on emergency situations than running in circles shouting that the sky is falling.
Sheesh ...
8
Sheesh ...
8
02-07-2016, 07:19 AM
#175
He who lies first, wins!
Joined APC: Feb 2007
Position: back in the saddle with sores!
Posts: 546
Originally Posted by NightIP
There's really nothing for them to gain by keeping the two groups separate. I see the NAC 737s in CVG picking up Southern's slack; they can't staff their jets as-is.
02-08-2016, 04:14 AM
#176
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2007
Position: Capt
Posts: 3,215
McCaskill-Bond. Yeah, that's an easy read. Fairly difficult to find anything that is definitive in that stuff, not to say that it could be of some benefit, though the AA - TWA thing is still a train wreck.
Originally Posted by longhauler View Post
They, Southern has 23 more coming.
Just like the 10-10-10 plan....yeah...believe it.
They, Southern has 23 more coming.
Just like the 10-10-10 plan....yeah...believe it.
I would not be surprised if this was one of the factors that created this merger. Southern couldn't do the 737 operation, so DHL came to Atlas to buy Southern, so that Atlas could fix the situation and hopefully get the 737s up and running. Keeping Southern separate would do NOTHING to fix the 737 manning problems.
BUT, we are having problems staffing the 767 because the 767 T&Cs are relatively low: I think it will be difficult for Atlas, also, to get the pilots to staff the 28 737s unless we improve our 737 T&Cs.
Namaste...
02-08-2016, 05:23 AM
#177
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2007
Position: 747
Posts: 1,290
Originally Posted by longhauler
emergency is an EICAS message, this is smoke with no discernible source and it makes all of us nervous. We have pulled CB's only to think that is the Li batteries in bulk that we can do nothing about and we are screwed!
8
02-08-2016, 05:40 AM
#178
RJ Furlough
Joined APC: Feb 2011
Position: ERJ145 F/O
Posts: 277
Originally Posted by atpcliff
Yes, it is. The McCaskill-Bond legislation was written in RESPONSE to the AA/TWA debacle, to prevent such a recurrence. One of the things it does is protect all the employee groups in a merger: If one side believes they are getting screwed by the seniority integration, all they have to do is say they want arbitration...then the seniority integration goes to an arbiter and they decide the integration. From what 1224 says, the integration has already been agreed to by both the Atlas and Southern MECs.
DHL chose Southern for the 28 737 for CVG domestic hub ops. They were the cheapest (ABX turned DHL down, then ATI accepted the DHL offer with a decent 737 contract. DHL then went to Southern as they offered much cheaper). Southern was SO cheap, in fact, they can't staff the planes. They have 5? operating 737s, because they can't get the pilots to staff any more.
I would not be surprised if this was one of the factors that created this merger. Southern couldn't do the 737 operation, so DHL came to Atlas to buy Southern, so that Atlas could fix the situation and hopefully get the 737s up and running. Keeping Southern separate would do NOTHING to fix the 737 manning problems.
BUT, we are having problems staffing the 767 because the 767 T&Cs are relatively low: I think it will be difficult for Atlas, also, to get the pilots to staff the 28 737s unless we improve our 737 T&Cs.
Namaste...
DHL chose Southern for the 28 737 for CVG domestic hub ops. They were the cheapest (ABX turned DHL down, then ATI accepted the DHL offer with a decent 737 contract. DHL then went to Southern as they offered much cheaper). Southern was SO cheap, in fact, they can't staff the planes. They have 5? operating 737s, because they can't get the pilots to staff any more.
I would not be surprised if this was one of the factors that created this merger. Southern couldn't do the 737 operation, so DHL came to Atlas to buy Southern, so that Atlas could fix the situation and hopefully get the 737s up and running. Keeping Southern separate would do NOTHING to fix the 737 manning problems.
BUT, we are having problems staffing the 767 because the 767 T&Cs are relatively low: I think it will be difficult for Atlas, also, to get the pilots to staff the 28 737s unless we improve our 737 T&Cs.
Namaste...
02-08-2016, 06:00 AM
#179
He who lies first, wins!
Joined APC: Feb 2007
Position: back in the saddle with sores!
Posts: 546
Originally Posted by mukalel
If atlas really has some stuff in the contract that keeps 737 pilots at first year pay for 3 years, (i think this is one of the most ridiculous things ive seen so far... Wonder how the group signed off on this as part of the contract..) atlas will have problems too because no one will come and work at atlas knowing they will be at 50 hour guarrentee pay and then still first year pay for the next 2 more years... I hope there can be some voting done to get rid of this clause in the contract..
02-08-2016, 06:44 AM
#180
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: 777, sofa
Posts: 1,183
Originally Posted by longhauler
It does and I believe I cut and pasted the portions of the CBA.
That was a deal breaker for most of the guys at SAI who thought about taking a Captaincy.
Those rates of pay you posted a couple pages ago are significant raises from the current SAI 737 rates. About $15 an hour across the board.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
