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Restricted ATP with Flight Engineer Time

Old 02-27-2019, 11:55 PM
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Default Restricted ATP with Flight Engineer Time

I am in a approved 4yr degree that will make me eligible for the 1000hr Restricted ATP. I also have over 2000 hrs of Armed Service Flight Engineer Time. I understand the 1/3 rule, and from reading the Bramham (2016) legal interpretation I conclude that I can use FE time along with Restricted ATP minimums. Correct me if I am wrong.

My question is; did I need to be certificated as a commercial pilot during the time that I gained FE hours for them to count or do the regulations mean you have to be a commercial pilot applying for an ATP using previous FE time.

“(d) A commercial pilot may log the following flight Engineer flight time toward the...”



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Old 02-28-2019, 05:04 AM
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Originally Posted by Victorstone View Post
I am in a approved 4yr degree that will make me eligible for the 1000hr Restricted ATP. I also have over 2000 hrs of Armed Service Flight Engineer Time. I understand the 1/3 rule, and from reading the Bramham (2016) legal interpretation I conclude that I can use FE time along with Restricted ATP minimums. Correct me if I am wrong.

My question is; did I need to be certificated as a commercial pilot during the time that I gained FE hours for them to count or do the regulations mean you have to be a commercial pilot applying for an ATP using previous FE time.

“(d) A commercial pilot may log the following flight Engineer flight time toward the...”

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Seems like latter.
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Old 03-01-2019, 07:56 AM
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Do you hold a FAA Flight Engineer certificate? Not sure the mixture for a R-ATP but FE time should count for time towards the unrestricted ATP. Good questions! I knew A&P professional flight engineers (PFE) that later got a commercial and were able to count their FE time towards the ATP. Regulations have certainly changed so if you can talk to an FAA inspector knowledgeable in certification of airmen that would be my advice.

After reading Bramham (2016), the sub notes include Armed Forces flight engineer time. Interesting if there is a mil comp issuance of Flight Engineer certificate??

Last edited by 155mm; 03-01-2019 at 08:23 AM.
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Old 03-01-2019, 10:49 AM
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I don’t have the FAA certificate, simply because the difficulty of coordinating a check ride. Last time I checked there was only one Examiner qualified to do so. After I checked around the answer I got was it doesn’t benefit me unless I wanted to be a civilian FE, which are few and far.

Do you think I should start trying to get answers at a local FSDO, to find an FAA inspector that would know?


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Old 03-01-2019, 11:11 AM
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Originally Posted by Victorstone View Post

Do you think I should start trying to get answers at a local FSDO, to find an FAA inspector that would know?


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If you live near a FSDO that also has Air carrier inspectors (especially regional airline inspectors), you could ask if a portion of your military FE time counts towards the 1000 hour R-ATP. We know it counts towards the 1500 unrestricted and if it doesn't count towards the RATP then other than a college degree, I don't see any advantage. You still need the 1000 hours. 1000 + 500 FE equals unrestricted ATP
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Old 03-01-2019, 11:18 AM
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Local FSDO should be a good source then (Honolulu), Im sure they deal with the local regional certification. I just wanted to exhaust my resources before I start poking the FAA.


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