FlywithStyle

When applying for an ATP rating what hours count as cross country. is it a straight line more than 50 miles to a point of landing like it is for the private and commercial. Or is it 50 miles in a straight line with a point of landing at any airport. I ask this because I do traffic watch and definatly fly more than 50 miles in a straight line but my points of landing are not past 50 miles sometimes.
this is what I found in the FAR
**C. Hours of Cross-Country. At least 500 flight hours
must have been accumulated as a pilot in cross-country
flight. Cross-country time is that time acquired during
flight from a departure point to a destination point that is
not the same as the departure point. It is also time
acquired in a flight that is cross-country in nature even
though the departure and destination points are the same
(such as forestry patrol).
** If you are using the time for an airline transport pilot (ATP) rating, then you need only fly to a point at least 50 nautical miles from the departure point, but there is no requirement to make a landing (FAR 61.1(b)(3)(vi))

**(3) Cross-country time means--
(i) Except as provided in paragraphs (b)(3)(ii) through (b)(3)(vi) of this section, time acquired during a flight--](see next paragraph)
(A) Conducted by a person who holds a pilot certificate;
(B) Conducted in an aircraft;
(C) That includes a landing at a point other than the point of departure; and
(D) That involves the use of dead reckoning, pilotage, electronic navigation aids, radio aids, or other navigation systems to navigate to the landing point.
***(vi) For the purpose of meeting the aeronautical experience requirements for an airline transport pilot certificate (except with a rotorcraft category rating), time acquired during a flight--
(A) Conducted in an appropriate aircraft;
(B) That is at least a straight-line distance of more than 50 nautical miles from the original point of departure; and
(C) That involves the use of dead reckoning, pilotage, electronic navigation aids, radio aids, or other navigation systems.

rthompsonjr

For the ATP the changed the rules a way back to 50 miles distance from the airport of origin. They changed it so the military guys who go out to a MOA and come back to the same airport could count all those hours toward their ATP.

rickair7777

To accomodate the mil guys, you do not have to land at a point other than your origin.

But regarding traffic watch....

The 50 NM straight line means you must at some point in the flight cross a circle 50NM from your departure airport.

You cannot simply cover 50+ NM over the ground as you criss-cross back and forth over your city and count that as XC.

skirtinstorms

Now the question is, how much of that flight time can be counted towards cross country time?
For example, if I depart XYZ airport and fly 100miles due east, circle a certain house of interest such as for photography reasons for a good hour, then fly back to XYZ aiport and land, can I log all of that time as cross country? Should I subtract the hour of circling from the total flight time?
How about if I go from ABC airport to CBA airport 100 miles away which usually takes 1 hour but I get lost along the way. By the time I get to CBA, the flight time ended up being 3 hours. Can I log all 3 hours as cross country?
I've heard 10 different answers to each of these questions and of course my own answer is different from all 10 I've heard.

multipilot

yes and yes

off of the top of my head I can't think of any reason why you couldn't.

skirtinstorms

That was my answer also. The local FSDO office and our POI argued differently when the issue came up. If I remember correctly, AOPA came out with their version of the answer as well which was very elaborate and different from my view.

Anyway, back to the point of this thread. For logging PIC X-C time towards and ATP, I agree, no need to land far away as long as your flight takes you to a point more than 50nm away at some point.

Gajre539

I have ATP minimums and I have never flown to an airport more than 50NM away without landing on it.

As for the definition:
- Cross-country for meeting the aeronautical experience for a private, instrument or commercial = flight to an airport more than 50NM straight line distance with a landing at that airport
- ATP Cross-country = same as above except no landing requirement other than the point of departure

Source: Section 4 Federal Regulations, 2008 Gleim Flight Instructor Revalidation Course

WEACLRS

You've answered your own question by quoting the correct FAR. As stated in 61.1(b)(3)(vi)(B) the flight must be at least 50 nm straight-line distance from the original point of departure, but no landing is required. Flying more than 50 nm inside a 50 nm circle of your point of departure would not qualify the flight as cross-country.