Connect and get the inside scoop on Airline Companies

Welcome to Airline Pilot Forums - Connect and get the inside scoop on Airline Companies

If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ. Join our community today and start interacting with existing members. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free.


User Tag List

Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 11-04-2008, 01:21 PM   #1  
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
 
Joined APC: Jan 2008
Posts: 251
Default Flight time restriction: need clarification/informal poll

This is from ALPA: if the crewmember is scheduled to fly eight hours or less but due to circumstances beyond the control of the certificate holder the schedule is exceeded, the crewmember may complete the schedule even if the pilot flies more than eight hours between rest periods.

But what's a schedule? The entire day, or the next leg?

Let's say you have a day trip:

PHL-CVG-PHL-CVG-PHL-SYR-PHL

It's SCHEDULED at 7.8 hours.

After some delays, you find yourself in SYR already at 7.2 hours. You're not going to make it to PHL without going over 8 hours. Can you go?

How would your company interpret this?

What if you're in SYR at 8.1hrs?

-----------

I'm sure this has been discussed before, but we could use a refresher, and I"m interested how other carriers and their respective FSDO's interpret it all.
MrBigAir is offline  
Old 11-04-2008, 01:36 PM   #2  
Gets Weekends Off
 
250 or point 65's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Aug 2008
Posts: 978
Default

a day is legal to start, legal to finish. you can do that last leg. the exception to this for a day is witlow
250 or point 65 is offline  
Old 11-04-2008, 01:54 PM   #3  
Gets Weekends Off
 
mooney's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Jan 2008
Position: CL-65 captain
Posts: 2,243
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 250 or point 65 View Post
a day is legal to start, legal to finish. you can do that last leg. the exception to this for a day is witlow
what he said. If you are legal to start your duty period, (scheduled 8 hours or less between rest periods) you can fly any amount of block hours (up to your duty period limit) so long as there had been no change in your city pairings.
mooney is offline  
Old 11-04-2008, 01:56 PM   #4  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined APC: Feb 2006
Position: DD->DH->RU/XE soon to be EV
Posts: 3,707
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 250 or point 65 View Post
the exception to this for a day is witlow
If I remember correctly, Whitlow was for duty time limitation only, isn't it?

I know, an extreme example;

Say a 16 hour duty day is scheduled, start duty at 6am, scheduled block in from the last leg is 21:45 p, 15 min debrief for a 22:00 duty off.

Now say that last leg is delayed for whatever reason and now your duty day with the scheduled block time for that last leg and the 15 min debrief will exceed 16 hrs. You are not even legal to start that leg since you will be exceeding the FAR 16 hour duty day, correct?

If not, please refresh my memory as to what exactly the Whitlow interpretation entailed, thanks.
dojetdriver is offline  
Old 11-04-2008, 02:06 PM   #5  
Line Holder
 
p1kraft's Avatar
 
Joined APC: May 2007
Position: idle stop release....
Posts: 81
Default

I concur. Legal to start legal to finish. If you are scheduled less than eight to start the day you are ok if little delays put you over. if they REschedule you then you "restart" and they again would have to make you legal to start a reschedule.
p1kraft is offline  
Old 11-04-2008, 04:18 PM   #6  
Gets Weekends Off
 
captain152's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Oct 2008
Posts: 1,252
Default

Yes, the 8 hours is legal to start legal to finish for the day ... now if something happens and they change your schedule they must make it within 8 hours again, but as long as it's within 8 hours when you start, you can finish it regardless ... now if you hit 16 hours in one day ... well you cannot exceed 16 hours ... so if you're sitting on the ground with one leg left and you're at 15.5 hours, unless you're going 10mi away, you'd better get a hotel :)
captain152 is offline  
Old 11-04-2008, 05:50 PM   #7  
Gets Weekends Off
 
250 or point 65's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Aug 2008
Posts: 978
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by dojetdriver View Post
Now say that last leg is delayed for whatever reason and now your duty day with the scheduled block time for that last leg and the 15 min debrief will exceed 16 hrs. You are not even legal to start that leg since you will be exceeding the FAR 16 hour duty day, correct?
correct. furthermore, it applies to both block and flight time. You may not push past the time that a push from the gate plus the block time plus your duty off time, would put you over 16 hrs of duty. You may not takeoff if the expected flight time plus taxi time plus duty off time puts you over a 16 hr duty day. however, legal to start the flight, legal to end it (say you got delayed in the air).
250 or point 65 is offline  
Old 11-04-2008, 06:13 PM   #8  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined APC: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,425
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrBigAir View Post
I"m interested how other carriers and their respective FSDO's interpret it all.
It's also probably in your FOM under "interpretation of policy" or something similar, chapter 3 or 4 I believe.
fosters is offline  
Old 11-04-2008, 09:47 PM   #9  
Gets Weekends Off
 
vtbvtdk's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Jun 2008
Position: 9K CA
Posts: 124
Default

I agree with the above comments, to put it simply:

Legal to start, legal to finish. You can do your schedule, however long it takes, as long as nothing changes (city pair, trip number etc)

--->HOWEVER<---

At 16 hours duty you turn into a pumpkin.
vtbvtdk is offline  
Old 11-05-2008, 05:15 AM   #10  
Gets Weekends Off
 
flyguyniner11's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Nov 2006
Position: A320 CA
Posts: 749
Default

I always thought legal to start legal to finish a 8 hr flight day but a Capt here has a email from our POI saying that's not true and saying that it's exactly like the 16 hr rule so that has caused a lot of confusion at our base I got clarity from our director of ops who said legal to start legal to finish but people still don't believe it so I dunno
flyguyniner11 is offline  
 
 
 

 
Post Reply
 



Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes


Related Topics
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Airnet! Longbow64 Part 135 117 07-23-2009 09:46 AM
I know it's been asked before, but how do you all log your flight times now? Atreyu Regional 23 11-05-2008 01:49 PM
FDX-Open Time Comment from Jetflyer SNIZ Cargo 67 11-01-2008 12:02 PM
NJ Flight Time Grid ARL120384 Fractional 10 08-15-2008 08:21 AM


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 12:21 AM.