SIC type and flight review
05-11-2009, 03:56 PM
#1
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SIC type and flight review
Greetings,
Just out of curiosity, I'm confirming that an SIC type rating added on to a commercial certificate would count as a flight review. 61.56 says there are exemptions for flight reviews including adding a new certificate or rating. I just want to make sure that there is no crazy rule or precedent out there that would exclude SIC ratings.
Thanks.
Just out of curiosity, I'm confirming that an SIC type rating added on to a commercial certificate would count as a flight review. 61.56 says there are exemptions for flight reviews including adding a new certificate or rating. I just want to make sure that there is no crazy rule or precedent out there that would exclude SIC ratings.
Thanks.
05-11-2009, 07:00 PM
#2
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You mean a crazy rule like, since the SIC type rating doesn't qualify you for anything in the US, doesn't require an "authorized instructor" for the training and doesn't involve showing anyone that you can fly anything, it doesn't count to reset the FR clock?
No, there has be no specific ruling to that effect. But the odds are pretty good that's the position that the FAA will ultimately take.
Play it safe. Get the flight review endorsement from someone authorized to give it to you.
No, there has be no specific ruling to that effect. But the odds are pretty good that's the position that the FAA will ultimately take.
Play it safe. Get the flight review endorsement from someone authorized to give it to you.
05-11-2009, 08:19 PM
#3
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But then their are airlines that require it for the FO's because of international destinations, my take is since it is a required type to get, and like any type ride, must follow ATP PTS standards set by the FAA, so it seems to me it will, but double check for sure.....IT is a loggable training event, ussually with an airlines APD or even a FED in some cases, and can reset the clock on instrument currency, if signed off in the logbook, so again I personally dont see the issue. But then I had a FR about 3 months before I did my type so it was never a question for me.
05-12-2009, 06:19 AM
#4
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Originally Posted by TPROP4ever
and like any type ride, must follow ATP PTS standards set by the FAA
IT is a loggable training event, ussually with an airlines APD or even a FED in some cases, and can reset the clock on instrument currency, if signed off in the logbook,
And, of course, if the training was a check airman for the company and wanted to endorse it as a pilot proficiency check, that would count also.
But I didn't think the OP was asking whether his trainer was allowed to endorse a flight review or a proficiency check for him, but whether the receipt of the SIC rating, without one more word being written anywhere, qualified as passing "a pilot proficiency check conducted by an examiner, an approved pilot check airman, or a U.S. Armed Force, for a pilot certificate, rating, or operating privilege."
05-12-2009, 08:24 AM
#5
Chief Jeppesen Updater
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Take a look at the actual regulation:
Simply adding a SIC type to your certificate doesn't count as a flight review... if you added it through a checkride that was completed by an airline, training center or authorized examiner than it does count as a flight review.
FWIW, I haven't had an endorsement for a "flight review" EVER. There is no requirement for a "sign off" if you meet one of the other requirements of the regulation.
Providing a training record from an airline (or training center) showing that you satisfactorily passed your proficiency check is sufficient for the FAA.
Here's the entire reg:
61.56 (d)
A person who has, within the period specified in paragraph (c) of this section, passed a pilot proficiency check conducted by an examiner, an approved pilot check airman, or a U.S. Armed Force, for a pilot certificate, rating, or operating privilege need not accomplish the flight review required by this section.
A person who has, within the period specified in paragraph (c) of this section, passed a pilot proficiency check conducted by an examiner, an approved pilot check airman, or a U.S. Armed Force, for a pilot certificate, rating, or operating privilege need not accomplish the flight review required by this section.
FWIW, I haven't had an endorsement for a "flight review" EVER. There is no requirement for a "sign off" if you meet one of the other requirements of the regulation.
Providing a training record from an airline (or training center) showing that you satisfactorily passed your proficiency check is sufficient for the FAA.
Here's the entire reg:
§ 61.56 Flight review.
(a) Except as provided in paragraphs (b) and (f) of this section, a flight review consists of a minimum of 1 hour of flight training and 1 hour of ground training. The review must include:
(1) A review of the current general operating and flight rules of part 91 of this chapter; and
(2) A review of those maneuvers and procedures that, at the discretion of the person giving the review, are necessary for the pilot to demonstrate the safe exercise of the privileges of the pilot certificate.
(b) Glider pilots may substitute a minimum of three instructional flights in a glider, each of which includes a flight to traffic pattern altitude, in lieu of the 1 hour of flight training required in paragraph (a) of this section.
(c) Except as provided in paragraphs (d), (e), and (g) of this section, no person may act as pilot in command of an aircraft unless, since the beginning of the 24th calendar month before the month in which that pilot acts as pilot in command, that person has—
(1) Accomplished a flight review given in an aircraft for which that pilot is rated by an authorized instructor and
(2) A logbook endorsed from an authorized instructor who gave the review certifying that the person has satisfactorily completed the review.
(d) A person who has, within the period specified in paragraph (c) of this section, passed a pilot proficiency check conducted by an examiner, an approved pilot check airman, or a U.S. Armed Force, for a pilot certificate, rating, or operating privilege need not accomplish the flight review required by this section.
(e) A person who has, within the period specified in paragraph (c) of this section, satisfactorily accomplished one or more phases of an FAA-sponsored pilot proficiency award program need not accomplish the flight review required by this section.
(f) A person who holds a current flight instructor certificate who has, within the period specified in paragraph (c) of this section, satisfactorily completed a renewal of a flight instructor certificate under the provisions in §61.197 need not accomplish the 1 hour of ground training specified in paragraph (a) of this section.
(g) A student pilot need not accomplish the flight review required by this section provided the student pilot is undergoing training for a certificate and has a current solo flight endorsement as required under §61.87 of this part.
(h) The requirements of this section may be accomplished in combination with the requirements of §61.57 and other applicable recent experience requirements at the discretion of the authorized instructor conducting the flight review.
(i) A flight simulator or flight training device may be used to meet the flight review requirements of this section subject to the following conditions:
(1) The flight simulator or flight training device must be used in accordance with an approved course conducted by a training center certificated under part 142 of this chapter.
(2) Unless the flight review is undertaken in a flight simulator that is approved for landings, the applicant must meet the takeoff and landing requirements of §61.57(a) or §61.57(b) of this part.
(3) The flight simulator or flight training device used must represent an aircraft or set of aircraft for which the pilot is rated.
(a) Except as provided in paragraphs (b) and (f) of this section, a flight review consists of a minimum of 1 hour of flight training and 1 hour of ground training. The review must include:
(1) A review of the current general operating and flight rules of part 91 of this chapter; and
(2) A review of those maneuvers and procedures that, at the discretion of the person giving the review, are necessary for the pilot to demonstrate the safe exercise of the privileges of the pilot certificate.
(b) Glider pilots may substitute a minimum of three instructional flights in a glider, each of which includes a flight to traffic pattern altitude, in lieu of the 1 hour of flight training required in paragraph (a) of this section.
(c) Except as provided in paragraphs (d), (e), and (g) of this section, no person may act as pilot in command of an aircraft unless, since the beginning of the 24th calendar month before the month in which that pilot acts as pilot in command, that person has—
(1) Accomplished a flight review given in an aircraft for which that pilot is rated by an authorized instructor and
(2) A logbook endorsed from an authorized instructor who gave the review certifying that the person has satisfactorily completed the review.
(d) A person who has, within the period specified in paragraph (c) of this section, passed a pilot proficiency check conducted by an examiner, an approved pilot check airman, or a U.S. Armed Force, for a pilot certificate, rating, or operating privilege need not accomplish the flight review required by this section.
(e) A person who has, within the period specified in paragraph (c) of this section, satisfactorily accomplished one or more phases of an FAA-sponsored pilot proficiency award program need not accomplish the flight review required by this section.
(f) A person who holds a current flight instructor certificate who has, within the period specified in paragraph (c) of this section, satisfactorily completed a renewal of a flight instructor certificate under the provisions in §61.197 need not accomplish the 1 hour of ground training specified in paragraph (a) of this section.
(g) A student pilot need not accomplish the flight review required by this section provided the student pilot is undergoing training for a certificate and has a current solo flight endorsement as required under §61.87 of this part.
(h) The requirements of this section may be accomplished in combination with the requirements of §61.57 and other applicable recent experience requirements at the discretion of the authorized instructor conducting the flight review.
(i) A flight simulator or flight training device may be used to meet the flight review requirements of this section subject to the following conditions:
(1) The flight simulator or flight training device must be used in accordance with an approved course conducted by a training center certificated under part 142 of this chapter.
(2) Unless the flight review is undertaken in a flight simulator that is approved for landings, the applicant must meet the takeoff and landing requirements of §61.57(a) or §61.57(b) of this part.
(3) The flight simulator or flight training device used must represent an aircraft or set of aircraft for which the pilot is rated.
05-12-2009, 09:39 AM
#6
Prime Minister/Moderator
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Originally Posted by TPROP4ever
But then their are airlines that require it for the FO's because of international destinations, my take is since it is a required type to get, and like any type ride, must follow ATP PTS standards set by the FAA, so it seems to me it will, but double check for sure.....IT is a loggable training event, ussually with an airlines APD or even a FED in some cases, and can reset the clock on instrument currency, if signed off in the logbook, so again I personally dont see the issue. But then I had a FR about 3 months before I did my type so it was never a question for me.
Instrument proficiency checks must be done as PIC...a 121 CA can use his PC, but not an FO.
Also, a FR endorsement is only required if the training event was a FR and nothing else. If you complete any event in 61.56(d) no endorsement is required.
You do not technically need to log a 61.56(d) event since the airline keeps records. However...not logging it could create confusion at future interviews if your logbook shows GA flying without a logged FR. I would try to get the sim instructor to sign your logbook, although many will refuse (liability or they are not CFI's).
05-12-2009, 04:38 PM
#7
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Yeah, I was signed off by Flight Safety and completed the required take off and landing as SMOC by a flight examiner, who then issued my new certificate. It seems kind of like a gray area and that's why I posted. It would be pretty nice if it counted.
I know an examiner who's going to a seminar for examiners and he's going to ask some people there (FSDO types).
I know an examiner who's going to a seminar for examiners and he's going to ask some people there (FSDO types).
05-13-2009, 04:03 AM
#8
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Posts: 826
Originally Posted by Python1287
I know an examiner who's going to a seminar for examiners and he's going to ask some people there (FSDO types).
05-13-2009, 07:27 AM
#9
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Originally Posted by FlyerJosh
Take a look at the actual regulation:
Simply adding a SIC type to your certificate doesn't count as a flight review... if you added it through a checkride that was completed by an airline, training center or authorized examiner than it does count as a flight review.
FWIW, I haven't had an endorsement for a "flight review" EVER. There is no requirement for a "sign off" if you meet one of the other requirements of the regulation.
Providing a training record from an airline (or training center) showing that you satisfactorily passed your proficiency check is sufficient for the FAA.
Here's the entire reg:
Simply adding a SIC type to your certificate doesn't count as a flight review... if you added it through a checkride that was completed by an airline, training center or authorized examiner than it does count as a flight review.
FWIW, I haven't had an endorsement for a "flight review" EVER. There is no requirement for a "sign off" if you meet one of the other requirements of the regulation.
Providing a training record from an airline (or training center) showing that you satisfactorily passed your proficiency check is sufficient for the FAA.
Here's the entire reg:
05-14-2009, 10:40 PM
#10
Line Holder
Joined APC: Sep 2008
Posts: 45
Originally Posted by FlyerJosh
Take a look at the actual regulation:
Quote:
61.56 (d)
A person who has, within the period specified in paragraph (c) of this section, passed a pilot proficiency check conducted by an examiner, an approved pilot check airman, or a U.S. Armed Force, for a pilot certificate, rating, or operating privilege need not accomplish the flight review required by this section.
Simply adding a SIC type to your certificate doesn't count as a flight review... if you added it through a checkride that was completed by an airline, training center or authorized examiner than it does count as a flight review.
Quote:
61.56 (d)
A person who has, within the period specified in paragraph (c) of this section, passed a pilot proficiency check conducted by an examiner, an approved pilot check airman, or a U.S. Armed Force, for a pilot certificate, rating, or operating privilege need not accomplish the flight review required by this section.
Simply adding a SIC type to your certificate doesn't count as a flight review... if you added it through a checkride that was completed by an airline, training center or authorized examiner than it does count as a flight review.
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